First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Mike Collier

  • Posts: 44
  • Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:14 am

First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostTue Aug 27, 2013 3:49 pm

After waiting for my MFT since last September (and subsequently switching to a 4K model) I finally had my first chance to shoot something on the BMCC EF model, borrowed from a friend. I thought I would post a few thoughts on working with it.

First the kit-it was pretty straight forward. BMCC, shoulder mount, anton bauer power, alphetronic VF, follow focus, mattebox. All my lenses are out of town at the moment, so I borrowed a few different lenses, but ended up staying on the Sigma 17-70.

The camera is fantastic to work with, and odd compared to most cameras. I basically reverted to my normal MO when working with film. When watching the footage it is odd to see an image that is flatter than your eyes. Most of the lighting was dramatic and contrasty, yet to see it on the VF it looked flat and boring. I had expected that, but it was a little unnerving. At least with film, your seeing the image on a ground glass with your own eyes.

I can't stress enough how useful a light meter is with this camera. I normally keep one on me, but generally only use it to check the key light, so I can light to a stop without needing to check monitor all the time. Contrast is usually done by eye, and checked on the monitor. However with the BMCC, there was no joy on the monitor, since there was essentially no contrast. So I went with normal values I have worked with in film to double check my eyes. As an added bonus it helped me to match values on turn around and relights.

I also did not want to follow the ETTR method, since it was explained to me as setting zebra to 100 and stopping down just below clipping. Seems like a simple method, but in video and in film I always like skin tone value and key light to hit the same point on the exposure curve. This is very hard to do by eye on the BMCC. In film mode the difference between exposure and a stop or two under or over is very slight. To be able to consistently hit proper exposure would have been difficult without a light meter (although I did set the alphetronic VF to 50% zebra and used that as a skin tone check if I ever wanted to check my over/under).

I should note another similarity to film-rating. In film I would usually rate my film 2/3 stops below its actual rating. After doing some tests with the BMCC I decided it was necessary to rate the camera at 400. I shot raw, set at 800, but treated it in all respects as 400. This method worked out really well, and looking at the waveform in the dailies grade, it gave me quite a fat negative, so to speak.

Workflow wise, it is all quite straight forward. We shot about 4 mags a day (3x250gB, 1x180gB). That was transferred on set to hard drive, off set was backed up, then footage came home with me for dailies grade. In grade I added a look to get to where I want it to land in the end. Using a light meter I feel really helped this process, all the exposure was dead-on consistent, so I could basically do a one-light and apply that to all the clips. I must admit however I did some tweeking set-up to set-up to see what was possible with the image. As most of you already know, it is amazing.

I exported the dailies as quicktime H264 files, these will go to the editor, then conformed in resolve for final grade and deliverables. All in all the process was quite pleasant. One thing I had to laugh about was some early reports that said the camera was heavy. At 3.3lbs it was featherweight to what I am used to. Thankfully fully loaded with the whole rig and the Hytron 140 batteries, the camera weighed in at a well balanced 20lbs. Enough to give it heft and mass in its handheld quality, but light enough to shoot 12 hours a day with.

I don't want to post any grades or footage until the director approves it, but until then I suppose I can at least post a pic he's put public of the camera sitting on the set. shows off the rig nicely.

BIR.jpg
BIR.jpg (213.46 KiB) Viewed 5334 times
Michael Collier, II
Cinematographer - Gaffer - Camera Operator

http://www.RandomAcronym.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3075740/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
Offline
User avatar

Nikolay Smirnov

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:34 pm
  • Location: Moscow

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostTue Aug 27, 2013 4:35 pm

Very interesting story, especially about the metering part. Working with digital film is a new level of hardness compared to the real film. I have lots of understanding problems with BMCC sensor)). So it's really interesting to see the ungraded footage from your method setup.
DoP/Colorist
FADE Post-production
Offline
User avatar

Marcel Beck

  • Posts: 318
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:45 am
  • Location: Vaduz, Liechtenstein

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostWed Aug 28, 2013 1:50 pm

Great story,

I'm looking to get a light meter, which one did you use? One you can recommend?

Excited to see more! good luck!
Marcel Beck
Cinematographer & Producer
follow me: @mxbstudios
Offline

David Regenthal

  • Posts: 138
  • Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:15 am

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostWed Aug 28, 2013 2:09 pm

Mike- Thanks for taking the time to post that!
What shoulder rig are they using, if you noticed?
Windows 11 Pro
ASUSTek PRIME B660-PLUS D4 (LGA1700)
Intel i9-12900KF
128GB, nVidia RTX 4000
Samsung SSD 980 Pro 2TB (x3)
Offline

Mike Collier

  • Posts: 44
  • Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:14 am

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostWed Aug 28, 2013 11:01 pm

Marcel - I use a Spectra-IV meter. Very nice, basic meter. Basically every meter should be more or less useful. You might consider a spot meter combo like an older Sekonic, but in my experience-especially with video-any good quality meter will do. Spectra has been my go to for at least 8 years, and it has held up wonderfully. I haven't had it calibrated yet, and when I compare it to readings taken from other meters that are recently calibrated, it is still spot on.

Dregenthal- The camera and lens is my friends, but the rest of the rigging is mine. The shoulder mount is a red rock shoulder rig, with a manfroto quick release plate on top.

The EVF mount is a combination of an Ebay special my friend found and convinced me to buy for 80 bucks, and an L bracket that I drilled out to allow the bracket to be bolted with two bolts to the mount and two bolts to the EVF-I hate any slop in my EVF. If it moves even slightly during a take, I get all stabby, so I wanted that part extra solid. The bonus is that I can tighten the mount down, and rotate the evf with the bracket, so I am not putting pressure on the EVFs threads. The EVF has a fitted chamois eye piece on it, which I cannot recommend enough. The Alphetronic has a hard rubber eyepeice that doesn't completely fit the eye, and seems uncomfortable. I have never used it without the chamois, and it is very luxurious.

The Battery mount is a Gold Mount ebay special that has 1 unfiltered 2.1mm out, 1 unfiltered D-tap, and 3 regulated voltages out in various levels (5v, 7.2v, 12v). Matte box is digital juice, as is the follow focus.

I just need to add a top handle to make it a bit more functional. Perhaps a side handle, although during most operation I find I like to use the matte box to hold it anyway. I have never been a fan of bicycle handles kicked out like most people seem to like.
Michael Collier, II
Cinematographer - Gaffer - Camera Operator

http://www.RandomAcronym.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3075740/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
Online
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 18692
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostThu Aug 29, 2013 7:17 pm

Mike Collier wrote:...
I should note another similarity to film-rating. In film I would usually rate my film 2/3 stops below its actual rating. After doing some tests with the BMCC I decided it was necessary to rate the camera at 400. I shot raw, set at 800, but treated it in all respects as 400. This method worked out really well, and looking at the waveform in the dailies grade, it gave me quite a fat negative, so to speak.


If you shot in raw with the camera set to 800, you are seeing the maximum dynamic range of the camera. If you rated the camera at 400 in your exposure meter, you are shooting one stop to the right considering the method you used to expose based on skin tone and key light. You possibly could even rate the camera at 200 in the exposure meter and get a similar result with a little more light in the shadows.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Rick Lang
Offline

Mike Collier

  • Posts: 44
  • Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:14 am

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostFri Aug 30, 2013 12:19 am

rick.lang wrote:If you shot in raw with the camera set to 800, you are seeing the maximum dynamic range of the camera. If you rated the camera at 400 in your exposure meter, you are shooting one stop to the right considering the method you used to expose based on skin tone and key light. You possibly could even rate the camera at 200 in the exposure meter and get a similar result with a little more light in the shadows.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Exactly. My tests showed that in most scenes the DR is in the lower range, while the camera seems to allocate its DR to the upper end. So to expose normally you get an image that is in the lower-to-mid part of the image, even in highlights. So to shift the exposure one stop to the right you expand the shadow detail, while still maintaining all but the brightest highlights. It worked really well. You could rate 200, if your scenes are flat enough to start with to allow for that. In my case 400 worked perfectly for me.

The DR doesn't change, you still have 13 stops, it just makes the over/under distributed more evenly. I suppose its similar to the ETTR method, but maintains exposure consistency regardless of what the highlights are doing.
Michael Collier, II
Cinematographer - Gaffer - Camera Operator

http://www.RandomAcronym.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3075740/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
Offline

Claudio Rufa

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:47 pm

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostFri Aug 30, 2013 7:09 am

Thank you for your post.
Please can you explain better the difference between shooting in raw at 200, 400, 800 about the DR.
I have always thought that the camera has 13 stops and my approach to this is to cut the highlights over the 100 %. I can work with resolve in order to adjust the skin tone as desired. I' don't understand what do you mean about it. If I have more than 13 stops, like a bright day, my problem is to adjust the exposure cutting the highlights over 100%. If I work in an interior with 10 stops I work with the meter placing the skin tone in zone V but I don't care if the iso is 200, 400 or 800. What is wrong in my opinion?
Claudio Rufa
Italy
Offline

Jaime Amunátegui

  • Posts: 31
  • Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:35 pm

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostFri Aug 30, 2013 7:55 am

Offline

Claudio Rufa

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:47 pm

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostFri Aug 30, 2013 9:30 am

Jaime Amunátegui wrote:I have seen some explanations of this.
here's the link: http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6607&p=55510&hilit=iso+raw#p55510

and here: http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6038&start=10

Hope this helps you :arrow: :)


Thank you!
I have read very carefully but I it will be better a solid, clear explanation from BMD, specially about the differences using 1600 ISO.
Raw is fantastic but It is new for most of us and I think there is much confusion about it.
It is clear that it easy to find a proper way to work with it but I would like to know the best way without doing many personal tests....
Claudio Rufa
Italy
Online
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 18692
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: First Short with the BMCC-thoughts on the camera

PostFri Aug 30, 2013 10:35 pm

nikemerlino wrote:Thank you for your post.
Please can you explain better the difference between shooting in raw at 200, 400, 800 about the DR.
I have always thought that the camera has 13 stops and my approach to this is to cut the highlights over the 100 %. I can work with resolve in order to adjust the skin tone as desired. I' don't understand what do you mean about it. If I have more than 13 stops, like a bright day, my problem is to adjust the exposure cutting the highlights over 100%. If I work in an interior with 10 stops I work with the meter placing the skin tone in zone V but I don't care if the iso is 200, 400 or 800. What is wrong in my opinion?


Mike Collier is shooting raw with the camera set to ISO 800 at all times. That gives you 13 stops of dynamic range. But instead of exposing to the right fully, ETTR, he is exposing as you might expect for a film camera to the model's skin for example, setting his own exposure meter at ISO 400 or as I suggested at times even at ISO 200. Then manually adjusting the BMCC based on his exposure meter set at ISO 400 while keeping the BMCC ISO at ISO 800. He is effectively letting in two times the light compared to if he was shooting his model on film so exposing one stop to the right.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Rick Lang

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests