Color grading altering shots at x-diss transition - why?

Hello, I'm an editor new to DR and very happy to be working with DR Studio after 20 years with FCP and Premiere. I'm currently editing a project and have done my color grading and I'm seeing unexpected results with my color grades in the edit page after applying my transitions. Before the transitions, everything looks great. After applying transitions, the color is completely off at the point where the transitions occur.

So shot A has a particular tan color cast while shot B has a specific pink hue (see davinci1.jpg). However when adding a cross dissolve between them shot A takes on a pink cast with the transition, which looks horrible (see davinci2.jpg). Can't seem to understand why this is happening. It's completely not as I expected, that is, I've never seen editing software behave this way. Of course, I am sure there must be something that I'm doing wrong or that I don't know, some setting in the color page, but I can't understand or find an explanation. Again, I am new to DR and new to color grading so any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

By the way I am using two different camera sources in my project, one being the BMPCC 6K which I shot in raw, the other being from a Canon R5 (not raw). In the example I am giving here (images enclosed) the media was shot on the Canon R5 and is in H.264 format. Also, my Color Management settings are set to DaVinci YRGB Color Managed for Color Science, DaVinci Wide Gamut, with the Output set to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4.

Thanks in advance!

Note playhead is before the transition - you can see the two different color grades applied

davinci1.jpg (967.29 KiB) Viewed 1742 times

Note playhead is at the point of transition - you can see the color grade changes shot A

davinci2.jpg (919.47 KiB) Viewed 1742 times

Well, you're getting some of the extreme colors from B spilling onto A. That's...how dissolves work.

Um, well this doesn't seem normal to me. I've been editing video for 20 years and I've never seen a transition behave this way before. It feels like the meta data/color grading in shot B is changing shot A, instead of having the color grading 'baked in' to shot B and only dissolving into A. What I'm getting is a massive pop of color. It doesn't seem right. Actually, what I'm noticing now is that the cross-dissolve only works properly if I have Bypass Colour Management turned on... which tells me there must be something wrong with my settings.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Export a dra from project manager of a project with just these two clips, someone can check

Why not try the classic approach and put your clips on two tracks, overlapping each other?
Grade them and add fades. Do you see the same behavior?

Hi Guys,
I see the same problem using a "cross disolve" transition (most other transtion also has the same issue).
Working in "DaVinci Wide Gamut" color space and export to Rec709 (default) in DR 17.2.
Footage is on both sides from DJI Air2s - DLOG
Using a LUT & some basic grading (not the HDR weels), and some NR at the end.

Example:

Feedback is welcome
roman

Specs:
Win10 (latest updates)
DR 17.2, will test today with 17.2.1
Nvidia Studio Driver 462.59 @ 1080Ti
AMD Ryzen9

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I have not yet had a chance to export a dra but may go ahead and do so today. Also, I have tried doing it "the old way" with two tracks and still see the same results.

Roman, the video test you are presenting here presents exactly the same issue I am having. Thank you! That is very validating, and I hope your example leads to some explanation.

Side note: aside from posting here for the first time, learning new software (old dog, new tricks) is hard enough. What's most appreciated are the productive posts that offer genuine solutions. Thanks to all who have taken the time to do so. I do appreciate it.

Hi everyone, thanks again for the comments. I ended up hiring a Certified DaVinci Resolve trainer to consult with me about this project and after looking at my setup and configuration this is what he determined:

Apparently, there is an issue with the render cache codec and the DaVinci Resolve Color Management setting. For some reason this combination was causing my titles and transitions to go crazy saturated.

After turning off Resolve Color Management and returning to the default DaVinci YRGB, we then turned off the render cache. I have learned that the Render Cache is only for playback, and to see things smoothly while you edit. It does not affect renders from the Deliver Page.

So, after doing these two things the color processes accurately and without the crazy saturation I was having. By the way, as mentioned here, it was not only affecting my transitions but my titles as well. I discovered this as I attempted to export my rough cut with a lower third title card. After applying the title card the color grading for the entire sequence went crazy saturated and that's when I called in the experts.

Would love to know what explanation there may be for this phenomenon. Roman, this could be something that helps you as well. Turning off Color Management and Render Cache worked for me.

While the phenomenon you describe seems to be a bug in RCM, I'd just like to warn about one setting, since cached images actually can influence final delivery. To avoid this, one has to make sure that "Use render cached images" under Advanced Settings is not activated.

Hello, I'm an editor new to DR and very happy to be working with DR Studio after 20 years with FCP and Premiere. I'm currently editing a project and have done my color grading and I'm seeing unexpected results with my color grades in the edit page after applying my transitions. Before the transitions, everything looks great. After applying transitions, the color is completely off at the point where the transitions occur.

We run into situations like this with film projects where the transition is "baked in" by the lab, so we don't even have two different shots to work with. If we just do a straight dissolve, the problem is it can start to look weird in the middle.

Our solution (and I'm giving away a trade secret): I sometimes do a second keyframed dissolve on a different node in the middle of the transition, and all that does is fix the weird color/level change in the middle of the baked-in dissolve. In some cases, I actually have to go frame-by-frame to fix unexpected shifts and clashes so that it appears to be one smooth, continuous shot. And then there are times where I'll do an additional trim correction later on if I see anything looking a little off.

In film we also run into what the lab called "notches," which is a hard printer light change that would bump the level of R-G-B (or just one or two of them), and I always put in a compensation color change to make those completely invisible. The end result is often far better than it ever looked as a film print in a theater.

In your case, if it boils down to color management and/or cache, that's a whole separate thing. I want to like color management, but generally (particularly with ACES) I find myself fighting the imposed color space and tone-mapping too much. Sometimes, it's a "that's the way it is" situation, but I like to avoid it when I can. Cached images are a necessary evil, but you have to choose a codec that can handle whatever settings you're using.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Hi everyone, thanks again for the comments. I ended up hiring a Certified DaVinci Resolve trainer to consult with me about this project and after looking at my setup and configuration this is what he determined:

Apparently, there is an issue with the render cache codec and the DaVinci Resolve Color Management setting. For some reason this combination was causing my titles and transitions to go crazy saturated.

After turning off Resolve Color Management and returning to the default DaVinci YRGB, we then turned off the render cache. I have learned that the Render Cache is only for playback, and to see things smoothly while you edit. It does not affect renders from the Deliver Page.

So, after doing these two things the color processes accurately and without the crazy saturation I was having. By the way, as mentioned here, it was not only affecting my transitions but my titles as well. I discovered this as I attempted to export my rough cut with a lower third title card. After applying the title card the color grading for the entire sequence went crazy saturated and that's when I called in the experts.

Would love to know what explanation there may be for this phenomenon. Roman, this could be something that helps you as well. Turning off Color Management and Render Cache worked for me.

Hi Lisa, can you make a simple two clip project that shows the issue you describe and then make a dra to send to me.. id like to explore it a little deeper.

I'm not sure your issue is the same as Romans so id like to check as ive just done another test and dont see the same render cache issue.

Hi Lisa, can you make a simple two clip project that shows the issue you describe and then make a dra to send to me.. id like to explore it a little deeper.

I'm not sure your issue is the same as Romans so id like to check as ive just done another test and dont see the same render cache issue.

Hi Peter, thanks so much for looking into this. I've prepared my dra and will send to you here now. Thank you

While the phenomenon you describe seems to be a bug in RCM, I'd just like to warn about one setting, since cached images actually can influence final delivery. To avoid this, one has to make sure that "Use render cached images" under Advanced Settings is not activated.

That's a great tip! I don't think I checked on that. Thank you, Uli.

Hello, I'm an editor new to DR and very happy to be working with DR Studio after 20 years with FCP and Premiere. I'm currently editing a project and have done my color grading and I'm seeing unexpected results with my color grades in the edit page after applying my transitions. Before the transitions, everything looks great. After applying transitions, the color is completely off at the point where the transitions occur.

We run into situations like this with film projects where the transition is "baked in" by the lab, so we don't even have two different shots to work with. If we just do a straight dissolve, the problem is it can start to look weird in the middle.

Our solution (and I'm giving away a trade secret): I sometimes do a second keyframed dissolve on a different node in the middle of the transition, and all that does is fix the weird color/level change in the middle of the baked-in dissolve. In some cases, I actually have to go frame-by-frame to fix unexpected shifts and clashes so that it appears to be one smooth, continuous shot. And then there are times where I'll do an additional trim correction later on if I see anything looking a little off.

In film we also run into what the lab called "notches," which is a hard printer light change that would bump the level of R-G-B (or just one or two of them), and I always put in a compensation color change to make those completely invisible. The end result is often far better than it ever looked as a film print in a theater.

In your case, if it boils down to color management and/or cache, that's a whole separate thing. I want to like color management, but generally (particularly with ACES) I find myself fighting the imposed color space and tone-mapping too much. Sometimes, it's a "that's the way it is" situation, but I like to avoid it when I can. Cached images are a necessary evil, but you have to choose a codec that can handle whatever settings you're using.

Hi Mark! Thanks for sharing this very insightful tip -- and trade secret! It's really cool to learn how you work around issues like these at your level. I'm not completely certain I fully understand the fine points of how you are handling this, but I am learning and I am going to analyze this further to better understand. I do find the process very fascinating and it's very validating and supportive to receive this kind of professional feedback and "insider" info. I love it, thank you! I am still getting to know the color management space vs my own grading process in DR. Fortunately for now it seems turning off render cache works out just fine. Will look out for picky codecs!

Hi Lisa, can you make a simple two clip project that shows the issue you describe and then make a dra to send to me.. id like to explore it a little deeper.

I'm not sure your issue is the same as Romans so id like to check as ive just done another test and dont see the same render cache issue.

Hi Peter, thanks so much for looking into this. I've prepared my dra and will send to you here now. Thank you

Sorry, Peter. I'm not sure the best way to send it to you. I've zipped the dra and it's 4.3 GB. It only includes two clips with the transition in question. Can you please advise?

See the FAQs.
Put your zipped file on any cloud service like Dropbox, Google Drive, WeTransfer etc. and send him the link.

See the FAQs.
Put your zipped file on any cloud service like Dropbox, Google Drive, WeTransfer etc. and send him the link.

Thanks, Uli.