What is the meaning of ... Half-Res Proxies?

Hi,

What is the meaning of Half-Res Proxies when the viewer scales them to Project Setting?

Is this a feature or a bug?
When working with project setting UHD and then playing Half-Res (1080p50) proxied footage, the viewer scales the footage and the performance loss is quite huge on this iMac 2015.

See this example: (At the end, when I switch back to 1080p, you notice the scaling)

Why is the performance loss so huge on this one?

If its a feature, we'll use low res project settings as „Performance Mode" for the viewer on older hardware. However, it would be nicer to get a „Feeling" of what is going on with this viewer...

Yours
Daniel

Ok, so let’s say you shot something in 4K, but your computer is a bit old. You’ll have a bad experience editing because your machine would struggle to manipulate such huge files.

By creating a half resolution proxy, you create a smaller version of your footage that your machine is capable of working with during editing.

Then, when you render at the end, Resolve takes all the edits you applied to the proxy footage and applies to them to the original 4K files (assuming you’re outputting in 4K too).

Does that help?


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Hey Ian,

exactly that is the meaning. But its not working properly.

In the example above im showing you just the case you described. We set project settings to UHD and generated half res proxies.

However, performance while playing back proxies did not get better. Maybe even worse compared to the q5 source footage.

And then:
When we set project settings to 1080p, the resolution in the viewer switches and we noticed a significant boost in playback performance. Is that supposed to work like that? I guess not.

You want to use a timeline resolution consistent with the resolution of the proxies. If you're working with HD proxies, then use an HD timeline. If you put HD proxies on an UHD timeline, the system is going to scale them back up to UHD.

If you select the automatic option, the system will generate proxies at the resolution of the timeline. So if the footage is UHD but the timeline is HD, you'd get half-res proxies. If you want to finish at UHD, you'd turn off the proxies and set the timeline back to UHD.

If you use HD proxies on an HD timeline, you'll be fine. Handling 4K material will be a challenge on a 2015 iMac no matter what. I would bet it'd be able to do HD ProRes 422HQ reasonably well.

If you want to finish at UHD, you'd turn off the proxies and set the timeline back to UHD.

I think the Timeline resolution doesn't have do be reset if you set the resolution to UHD at export. Resolve is Timeline resolution independent during editing. So it can be set to any 16:9 resolution if you only color grade. Using Optimize, when you pause the image Resolve displays is the Timeline resolution. It may the same for proxies.

I doubt you have to turn-off proxies because the whole design of Resolve is to always use Source for export unless you check Use Optimize.

You need to set the timeline to the intended resolution before export or Resolve will upscale.
But it warns you when you are trying to do it.

If you want to finish at UHD, you'd turn off the proxies and set the timeline back to UHD.

I think the Timeline resolution doesn't have do be reset if you set the resolution to UHD at export. Resolve is Timeline resolution independent during editing. So it can be set to any 16:9 resolution if you only color grade. Using Optimize, when you pause the image Resolve displays is the Timeline resolution. It may the same for proxies.

You're thinking here is wrong. "Resolution independent" doesn't mean you can scale down and then up without quality loss. The system will warn you if you attempt to export UHD material on an HD timeline at UHD resolution, because you won't like the result. If you proceed, it will do exactly as the settings dictate: downsample the UHD for the HD timeline, then upscale the down-sampled UHD (now at HD resolution) back to UHD.

I doubt you have to turn-off proxies because the whole design of Resolve is to always use Source for export unless you check Use Optimize.

You may be able override OM on the Deliver page, but in my view its ill-advised to export anything without reviewing the original footage, even if you can't get real-time playback. Turning it off before export would be part of my routine, if no one else's.

"You're thinking here is wrong. "Resolution independent" doesn't mean you can scale down and then up without quality loss."

Except that is what Resolution Independent" means. The current resolution--assumed to always be a down-rez from Source rez, is only relevant while editing. Once you decide to export you are doing so from the Source files themselves. The only data transferred from the edit are math data from color grading and math data from A FX and V FX.

You are free to alter resolution during editing because editing doesn't create any new stored images. Only math data from color grading and math data from A FX and V FX are ceated.

Once you SEE each image obtained from the Source image and scaled to the current Timeline resolution (modified by any math data from color grading and math data from A FX and V FX) that image is discarded. Its gone.

Change the current Timeline resolution and go back one frame and you'll SEE the previous image taken from the Source image and scaled to the current Timeline resolution (modified by any math data from color grading and math data from A FX and V FX). The image you SEE is then discarded. Its gone.

This why by changing timeline resolution you can speed-up viewing.

Export only involves Source images plus any math data from color grading and math data from A FX and V FX).

IF you Optimized you can choose to use these images during export Why? It will greatly speed up your export.

When you set proxy mode and use half resolution doesn't it take time for the files on the timeline to convert AND each new clip you put on the timeline also has to be converted while you edit. Is this why the results may be slower editing and high cpu gpu usage?

Does the half resolution just happen on the fly or is it physical files that are being converted?

Except that is what Resolution Independent" means. The current resolution--assumed to always be a down-rez from Source rez, is only relevant while editing

"Resolution independent" does not mean you can juggle two different resolutions at the same time (timeline/export) and not see a quality loss under the circumstances detailed above. If you're in any doubt about this claim, I suggest you put UHD footage on an HD timeline (or on even lower resolution timeline, for a more dramatic comparison) and then export at UHD resolution. Then compare that result with UHD footage on a UHD timeline, exported at UHD resolution.

You'll notice along the way that you'll get a warning on the Deliver page not to export footage at its native resolution when the timeline has forced a down-sample of it, but if you're convinced otherwise, don't let that stop you.

When you set proxy mode and use half resolution doesn't it take time for the files on the timeline to convert AND each new clip you put on the timeline also has to be converted while you edit. Is this why the results may be slower editing and high cpu gpu usage?

Does the half resolution just happen on the fly or is it physical files that are being converted?

"Proxy playback" is not what's being discussed above. The proxy playback option allows reduced real-time playback quality and doesn't involve the generation of actual proxies on disk ("optimized media", in Resolve-speak, as of v16). It would have no effect on exports.

The downside of proxy playback is, it won''t scale titles correctly, is often unpleasant to look at, and wouldn't be suitable for anything but basic editing.

Except that is what Resolution Independent" means. The current resolution--assumed to always be a down-rez from Source rez, is only relevant while editing

"Resolution independent" does not mean you can juggle two different resolutions at the same time (timeline/export) and not see a quality loss under the circumstances detailed above.

While editing you can adjust resolution as you want. Editing resolution has no effect on export resolution. Zero connection! After you see a frame on a viewer it's gone. Export only uses the Source file.

Have you used Media Composer, Media 100, Premier, LightWorks, FCP, FCX? An edit leaves no images! Only tables of data. That's how they work.

An export applies these data to full-resolution Source images. You never juggle anything.

Moreover if you Optimize you never have to see a single frame of you Source file while you edit--like FCX.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Resolve renders based on the settings u make and if your timeline resolution is HD and ur rendering a single clip mode UHD render, it’s up rezing the HD timeline.
For render, set the timeline to at least the highest res u render for the render, set it and proxy etc as u need to edit smoothly

We cover this all in the manual

While editing you can adjust resolution as you want. Editing resolution has no effect on export resolution. Zero connection! After you see a frame on a viewer it's gone. Export only uses the Source file.

Have you used Media Composer, Media 100, Premier, LightWorks, FCP, FCX? An edit leaves no images! Only tables of data. That's how they work.

An export applies these data to full-resolution Source images. You never juggle anything.

Moreover if you Optimize you never have to see a single frame of you Source file while you edit--like FCX.

Bold face text will not change the fact that you're mistaken about how Resolve works. Generalizations about other NLEs (and yes, I've used them all, as well as a few others) won't help either.

But why listen to me? If the manual, actual experience with Resolve (do you have any at all?) and now the Resolve Project Manager can't convince you, you might at least have consideration for the other beginners here, and stop promoting misinformation.

You're similarly confused or misinformed about optimized media (or just my views of it?), and/or apparently unaware that optimized media may be clipped or crushed (compared to the original) and can be generated at significantly lower resolution as an editing convenience (if unsuitable for color grading), but I guess that's the least of it at this point.