New BM Product Announcement on 9-14-23

For handheld work the form factor works quite well for me, not having to rig it with an external monitor is nice. I think a lot of people want a box camera because it feels more proper and pro but for what it does it does it really well.

This is a valid point, but there are plenty of rigging options to address your concerns. How old are you, if you don’t mind?

I'd rather not say but I have been a pro for coming up to 25 years now. First in stills world and now both stills and cinematography.

I should probably add, I don't shoot like other people shoot and I never have and that's what has made the difference in my career both in stills and motion.

People want the 4K/6k/6k pro/12k in a Box/Gimbal style! YOU KNOW THAT! Please stop muddying the issue with absolute nonsense.

For the nth time, the only "nonsense" here is equating a handful of people on this forum, and your own preferences, with "the majority of users". Your marketing surveys are where, exactly?

And what is the "SEMI-PRO TO BEGINNER world of cinematography"? It's incoherent, for starters, and consists overwhelmingly of work which will never be seen anywhere. Or, even worse, cameras bought for projects which are never realized. Here's guessing that's one reason BMD keeps the prices low is because most of its buyers are not making a living at it.

And really now, if you want a box camera, what's stopping you? Lack of choice? Or is it that you want it for $2600, and no other manufacturer is willing to sell at that price for lack of a mass market to make up in volume what they lose in margin, so it's BMD's duty to do so?

For the nth time, the only "nonsense" here is equating a handful of people on this forum, and your own preferences, with "the majority of users". Your marketing surveys are where, exactly?

And what is the "SEMI-PRO TO BEGINNER world of cinematography"? It's incoherent, for starters, and consists overwhelmingly of work which will never been seen anywhere. Or, even worse, cameras bought for projects which are never realized. Here's guessing that's one reason BMD keeps the prices low is because most of its buyers are not making a living at it.

And really now, if you want a box camera, what's stopping you? Lack of choice? Or is it that you want it for $2600, and no other manufacturer is willing to sell at that price for lack of a mass market to make up in volume what they lose in margin, so it's BMD duty to do so?

He old are you John? If you don’t mind…

I’m asking ages because it proves that there is no one here under the age of 40.

If BMD wants to sell cameras to that demographic then so be it, but the younger generation is what is going to sustain BMD’s cinema camera business.

I’m asking ages because it proves that there is no one here under the age of 40.

If BMD wants to sell cameras to that demographic then so be it, but the younger generation is what is going to sustain BMD’s cinema camera business.

Yes right dude..All the kids are shooting box type cameras..

Yes right dude..All the kids are shooting box type cameras..

Ok… So what is BMD doing with this release? That’s all I’m saying.

I’m 45 btw. I’ll be 46 next week, I’m on the music video side of things so I’m around young people all the time and I see younger shooters and talk gear all the time. I’m talking from 16 on up.

He old are you John? If you don’t mind…

I do mind. It's irrelevant and your implication that only a nincompoop (whether too young or too old) would dispute your passion for a box camera is insulting.

Arguments either have merit or they don't. I would add that petulance and shouting ("YOU KNOW THAT!") and insults directed at the benighted suggests someone rather too young.

He old are you John? If you don’t mind…

I do mind. It's irrelevant and your implication that only a nincompoop (whether too young or too old) would dispute your passion for a box camera is insulting.

Arguments either have merit or they don't. I would add that petulance and shouting ("YOU KNOW THAT!") and insults directed at the benighted suggests someone rather too young.

I know it doesn’t feel good to be in a place where your opinion is starting to lose its relevance. I’m there too, the key is evolution, not doubling down on antiquated thinking.

Yes right dude..All the kids are shooting box type cameras..

Ok… So what is BMD doing with this release? That’s all I’m saying.

I’m 45 btw. I’ll be 46 next week, I’m on the music video side of things so I’m around young people all the time and I see younger shooters and talk gear all the time. I’m talking from 16 on up.

Yes I can totally see the desire for a box type camera, I also see the desire for one with everything built in. Maybe they'll introduce the box type thing next.

He old are you John? If you don’t mind…

I do mind. It's irrelevant and your implication that only a nincompoop (whether too young or too old) would dispute your passion for a box camera is insulting.

Arguments either have merit or they don't. I would add that petulance and shouting ("YOU KNOW THAT!") and insults directed at the benighted suggests someone rather too young.

I know it doesn’t feel good to be in a place where your opinion is starting to lose its relevance. I’m there too, the key is evolution, not doubling down on antiquated thinking.

I just don't think wanting a box type camera is a thing that has anything to do with age, box cameras have been around for ever and every older cinematographer in the world uses them.

Yes right dude..All the kids are shooting box type cameras..

Ok… So what is BMD doing with this release? That’s all I’m saying.

I’m 45 btw. I’ll be 46 next week, I’m on the music video side of things so I’m around young people all the time and I see younger shooters and talk gear all the time. I’m talking from 16 on up.

Yes I can totally see the desire for a box type camera, I also see the desire for one with everything built in. Maybe they'll introduce the box type thing next.

Maybe that’s what they want they’re niche to be. The all in one. This is the best argument.


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"Going on 46" and still not over the gear obsession? Maybe you're talking to too many young people, who don't yet realize that the perfect piece of equipment (this week) won't make the slightest difference in their fortunes or their personal happiness.

I just don't think wanting a box type camera is a thing that has anything to do with age, box cameras have been around for ever and every older cinematographer in the world uses them.

Al though I agree with you partially, I do think that in the current state of the cinematography world (YouTube, content creation, etc.) age and wanting a box style camera are related. Also. I wouldn’t say they’ve been around forever. It’s relatively new.

"Going on 46" and still not over the gear obsession? Maybe you're talking to too many young people, who don't yet realize that the perfect piece of equipment (this week) won't make the slightest difference in their fortunes or their personal happiness.

Who will ever be over “the gear obsession”? Isn’t that why we’re all here? You don’t have to be mad.

Age is just a number these days. Experience is important too, but neither guarantees a sage response. An open mind, an inquiring mind, and being a good listener helps in any discussion.

So I agree with John Paines and others: don’t base your judgments about a response on the age of the speaker. If Steven Allan Spielberg at age 16 was on the forum discussing motion picture shoots, I think we’ll listen.

I just don't think wanting a box type camera is a thing that has anything to do with age, box cameras have been around for ever and every older cinematographer in the world uses them.

Al though I agree with you partially, I do think that in the current state of the cinematography world (YouTube, content creation, etc.) age and wanting a box style camera are related. Also. I wouldn’t say they’ve been around forever. It’s relatively new.

Don't forget, the people you hear from on YouTube that want their box cameras aren't actually working DOP's, they're just dudes into equipment. You shouldn't pay too much mind to what they want.

…wanting a box style camera... It’s relatively new.

Well the Kodak Brownie (issued in 1900) was ubiquitous and a perfect box camera.

Age is just a number these days. Experience is important too, but neither guarantees a sage response. An open mind, an inquiring mind, and being a good listener helps in any discussion.

So I agree with John Paines and others: don’t base your judgments about a response on the age of the speaker. If Steven Allan Spielberg at age 16 was on the forum discussing motion picture shoots, I think we’ll listen.

Respectfully Rick, age matters when talking about design. Also, I bet if people listed their favorite camera designs the Pocket line would not but be at the top. Can an “older” person design something that appeals to “younger” people? Sure. Will they do it without consulting a younger person? Not likely.

Images look nice, I like the open gate modes. Is there a 16:9 aspect ratio as I can’t see one listed ?

Same silly body and no 10bit codec makes this camera more niche than ever. As a BMD user of over five years, who often shoots for others this 6K FF is a huge step backwards and has left me no path to continue in the BMD system. Huge shame.

If you've been a user for 5 years they don't come round and confiscate your old cameras now the new one has come out so you don't need to worry if that's what you're concerned about?

So you only buy a new camera when yours has been stolen or lost?

Don't forget, the people you hear from on YouTube that want their box cameras aren't actually working DOP's, they're just dudes into equipment. You shouldn't pay too much mind to what they want.

Working DOPs don’t buy BMD cameras.

Don't forget, the people you hear from on YouTube that want their box cameras aren't actually working DOP's, they're just dudes into equipment. You shouldn't pay too much mind to what they want.

Working DOPs don’t buy BMD cameras.

I'm a working DOP.

Images look nice, I like the open gate modes. Is there a 16:9 aspect ratio as I can’t see one listed ?

Same silly body and no 10bit codec makes this camera more niche than ever. As a BMD user of over five years, who often shoots for others this 6K FF is a huge step backwards and has left me no path to continue in the BMD system. Huge shame.

If you've been a user for 5 years they don't come round and confiscate your old cameras now the new one has come out so you don't need to worry if that's what you're concerned about?

So you only buy a new camera when yours has been stolen or lost?

No, I just carry on using the old one. I use the P6K Pro. I wished they brought out a new one I liked but I think I'll skip this latest model so I'll just carry on using the old one. It's very good and it's served me well and will carry on doing so.

I just don't think wanting a box type camera is a thing that has anything to do with age, box cameras have been around for ever and every older cinematographer in the world uses them.

Al though I agree with you partially, I do think that in the current state of the cinematography world (YouTube, content creation, etc.) age and wanting a box style camera are related. Also. I wouldn’t say they’ve been around forever. It’s relatively new.

Don't forget, the people you hear from on YouTube that want their box cameras aren't actually working DOP's, they're just dudes into equipment. You shouldn't pay too much mind to what they want.

Incorrect. It’s the YouTube only crowd that ARE happy with the Pocket form factor. Self shooters that shoot travel videos and just want a camera they can hold in their hand and edit themselves .

I am a working professional and EVERYONE I speak to (that’s 100% of my colleagues!) want BMD to evolve to a better form factor before they will consider buying one no matter how good the image quality is.

Professionals value usability much higher than minute differences in image quality. I’ll take a camera that is reliable and easy to work with in various situations over one that is unwieldy but has slightly better highlight rolloff.

The Irsa Mini form factor suits many that have come from broadcast bet most of Blackmagics market want something in between in size and with a form factor that is more flexible. What’s the point of a lovely 5” screen if the form factor limits me to using one battery type/size amd I need to add a v lock battery to the back to use it. That Vlock plate covers the nice screen so I need to add one to the top anyway.

Ok guys. BMD is the greatest, the Pocket line design is revolutionary, timeless and MAN WHAT AN IMAGE!

Carry on.

Yes a box camera definitely works well when you're working as a team with all that that entails. Not saying a box wouldn't be good at all but the current form factor is also good for certain ways of doing things. Hopefully they'll release a box soon then everyone will be happy.

Ok guys. BMD is the greatest, the Pocket line design is revolutionary, timeless and MAN WHAT AN IMAGE!

Carry on.

A box isn't exactly a revolution..

…wanting a box style camera... It’s relatively new.

Well the Kodak Brownie (issued in 1900) was ubiquitous and a perfect box camera.

Which proves that design is timeless.

No, I just carry on using the old one. I use the P6K Pro. I wished they brought out a new one I liked but I think I'll skip this latest model so I'll just carry on using the old one. It's very good and it's served me well and will carry on doing so.

Fair enough but I need two new camera bodies and have put up with BMDs weird design as it offered features that many other companies didn’t when I bought them. 10bit codecs being a big one.

Now, every other manufacturer offered great 10bit codecs and a bunch of other features that BMD doesn’t in a package that is less than $900 more expensive and can work in far more scenarios than BMDs cameras can. As an example, great as BRAW is, most productions still want ProRes or other industry standard 10 but codec. Most new buyers of these cameras will outgrow them very fast if they start working as a professional and BMD doesn’t really offer them an upgrade path.

Ok guys. BMD is the greatest, the Pocket line design is revolutionary, timeless and MAN WHAT AN IMAGE!

Carry on.

A box isn't exactly a revolution..

Correct, it’s timeless.

For this low end of the market, the box popularity (among some) actually puzzles me (really!). The Canon cine form-factor has always been a big rental favorite for docs, industrials and lower-budget features and rightly so. It offers great convenience, reliability and ease of use.

What's harder to understand is why box rigs have this appeal to shooters with no money and few crew.....

I think some people are just missing the point of a forum like this. It's a place where people can share information that helps enhance their knowledge on the tools available. And I imagine I speak for a lot members here and I know that I speak for myself when I say I would rather not have to wade through tons of personal complaints. It doesn't help gain information about the product at hand and is a waste of time.

Like you I don't find every release to be the perfect fit for my work flow and you know what I do. I don't buy that camera and move on. It isn't necessary for the world to know every thing I don't personally want or need, because it does not help with their work.

So perhaps it would be better if you just saved those complaints for your personal journal or at the very least create a new topic titled "Things I don't like or want." So you can commiserate with like minded individuals, while not wasting the time of those that just want gain info on the the cameras that currently exist.

Just a thought.

Just a thought.

Ponder this… We are in a “Cinematography” forum and all the talk is about “gear”. Why no “complaints” about that? Why not put your post in your journal?

I don’t necessarily want a ‘box’ like a Komodo although that would be better than the current DSLR form factor. I’d be happy with something like an FX6 form factor. I can use different battery sizes and types on the back. I can move the monitor to where I need it, I can put the hand grip in the position most comfortable for me or, I can remove the grip and monitor if needed. A ‘box’ is no harder for a solo shooter than any other form factor as in in fact far more flexible when not working with a crew.

I think some people are just missing the point of a forum like this. It's a place where people can share information that helps enhance their knowledge on the tools available. And I imagine I speak for a lot members here and I know that I speak for myself when I say I would rather not have to wade through tons of personal complaints. It doesn't help gain information about the product at hand and is a waste of time.

Like you I don't find every release to be the perfect fit for my work flow and you know what I do. I don't buy that camera and move on. It isn't necessary for the world to know every thing I don't personally want or need, because it does not help with their work.

So perhaps it would be better if you just saved those complaints for your personal journal or at the very least create a new topic titled "Things I don't like or want." So you can commiserate with like minded individuals, while not wasting the time of those that just want gain info on the the cameras that currently exist.

Just a thought.

Look at the heading of this thread. It is about a new unreleased camera (at the time) and from the title, as it’s not specific to ANY camera, why would you assume that you would gain any specific info on a specific type of camera?

For info on the new camera, I would suggest starting a thread specific to information and user experience on the 6K FF.

I wouldnt post my complaints there as that is not the place for it but here, I think it is the place for BMD users to ponder what should have been from a new upcoming release.

I think some people are just missing the point of a forum like this. It's a place where people can share information that helps enhance their knowledge on the tools available. And I imagine I speak for a lot members here and I know that I speak for myself when I say I would rather not have to wade through tons of personal complaints. It doesn't help gain information about the product at hand and is a waste of time.

Like you I don't find every release to be the perfect fit for my work flow and you know what I do. I don't buy that camera and move on. It isn't necessary for the world to know every thing I don't personally want or need, because it does not help with their work.

So perhaps it would be better if you just saved those complaints for your personal journal or at the very least create a new topic titled "Things I don't like or want." So you can commiserate with like minded individuals, while not wasting the time of those that just want gain info on the the cameras that currently exist.

Just a thought.

Look at the heading of this thread. It is about a new unreleased camera (at the time) and from the title, as it’s not specific to ANY camera, why would you assume that you would gain any specific info on a specific type of camera?

For info on the new camera, I would suggest starting a thread specific to information and user experience on the 6K FF.

I wouldnt post my complaints there as that is not the place for it but here, I think it is the place for BMD users to ponder what should have been from a new upcoming release.

Fair enough Tony. I did.

Just a thought.

Ponder this… We are in a “Cinematography” forum and all the talk is about “gear”. Why no “complaints” about that? Why not put your post in your journal?

Ha! Que - I see you found a way to take my thought as personal attack on you. Which I suppose I should have anticipated. So I will stand down and leave you to your "personal airing of grievances."

You keep doing you bro.

Just a thought.

Ponder this… We are in a “Cinematography” forum and all the talk is about “gear”. Why no “complaints” about that? Why not put your post in your journal?

Ha! Que - I see you found a way to take my thought as personal attack on you. Which I suppose I should have anticipated. So I will stand down and leave you to your "personal airing of grievances."

You keep doing you bro.

??? It’s just ironic. Is that not what you just did? You guys are very sensitive.


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People want a box because they feel it’s somehow better for being adaptable and for “rigging” whatever that means. I mean I can show you some photos of “rigged” non box cameras but box heads don’t want to hear it because they think it’s somehow more flexible or somehow has more mounting places. It’s a strange blind spot to how we already rig other non box cameras.

Typically this is a user who wants one camera to do all things.

The biggest problem with a box is that it’s a pig for all situations. Yeah sure you can bolt a lot of stuff to it ad hoc and build it into something that has all the bits an individual user wants.

But it sure makes an ugly dysfunctional inelegant camera build. Most professional camera OPERATORS a don’t like a box. I’m talking full time operators not DPs that own and operate a camera.

A box fits in all the boxes but does none of them well.

On a lot of sets you have different builds of different cameras to do different jobs. You don’t take your A camera body and de-rig it to use on a Steadicam. You get a third body and leave it built for Steadicam.

And most important for me, when you want a stripped back camera with the bare minimum to make it work but still shoot, you have a horrible box to hold.

All you box heads…where does the awesome BMD 5 inch screen go? You realise that means your box is huge right? Like bigger than a Komodo. Oh bolt it on you say. Ok so now there’s an arm that may or may not let go, and now you have to power it somehow so there’s cables for that and video has to be connected somehow.

How do I hand hold the body with just a lens on it? A box isn’t really ergonomic at all.

JB

Kim I can tell you exactly why it’s not ergonomically good but it’s a moot point.

People have their minds made up.

JB

All you box heads…where does the awesome BMD 5 inch screen go?

JB

To a place which isn't obstructed by a 150Wh V-mount battery

Some rods on the bottom will move that vmount out the way. Everyone's asking for a box but at the same time everyone's jumping ship to stuff like the FX3 which are awful tiny photocamera style bodies. I always feel like there's a double standard when it comes to Blackmagic. Same with the rolling shutter. Panasonic and Sony (A7IV, FX9) all use similar sensors with similar (actually worse) rolling shutter performance and no one complains.

Most professional camera OPERATORS a don’t like a box. I’m talking full time operators not DPs that own and operate a camera.

This is so funny to me because those same operators would hate this form factor even more. Imagine trying to operate a camera for the run of a show with all the cables exiting towards you? Or being pushed to use a viewfinder or monitor that is only visible from directly behind and/or above the camera? Nightmare fuel. I dunno how they pushed through it on The Creator with the FX3 bodies. We absolutely could not stand them on the last show I did and they stayed in their cases at the truck for 95% of the show as a result.

But seriously though, imagine it. Like, a full time professional operator is going to use this body with zero rigging? They're just going to mush it in to their face to see the itty bitty viewfinder and pull their own focus? C'mon. A box camera might need rigging but any capable 1st AC is going to be able to make it comfortable and seamless for the operator in ways that are significantly more difficult on an SLR style body.

All you box heads…where does the awesome BMD 5 inch screen go?

The touch screen is one of the worst parts, IMO. Do you know how much it sucks to use those in colder climates? Or how even 1500nits still isn't as much as you'd really want to power through finger smudges in direct sunlight. The 5" screen isn't a selling point in a professional context.

People want the 4K/6k/6k pro/12k in a Box/Gimbal style! YOU KNOW THAT! Please stop muddying the issue with absolute nonsense.

For the nth time, the only "nonsense" here is equating a handful of people on this forum, and your own preferences, with "the majority of users". Your marketing surveys are where, exactly?

And what is the "SEMI-PRO TO BEGINNER world of cinematography"? It's incoherent, for starters, and consists overwhelmingly of work which will never be seen anywhere. Or, even worse, cameras bought for projects which are never realized. Here's guessing that's one reason BMD keeps the prices low is because most of its buyers are not making a living at it.

And really now, if you want a box camera, what's stopping you? Lack of choice? Or is it that you want it for $2600, and no other manufacturer is willing to sell at that price for lack of a mass market to make up in volume what they lose in margin, so it's BMD's duty to do so?

I like this. Some good points in a short writing. Pro by definition means you get paid. There are tons of hacks in every profession that get paid. I'm still way back at approaching the cameras like musical instruments. The more I practice with a camera the better things get. When I first bought the 6KP I could not do a handheld shot for my life. Now after a lot of practice and an extra grip it's become quite easy and comfortable. There's something to be said about learning how to use a tool.

People want a box because they feel it’s somehow better for being adaptable and for “rigging” whatever that means. I mean I can show you some photos of “rigged” non box cameras but box heads don’t want to hear it because they think it’s somehow more flexible or somehow has more mounting places. It’s a strange blind spot to how we already rig other non box cameras.

Typically this is a user who wants one camera to do all things.

The biggest problem with a box is that it’s a pig for all situations. Yeah sure you can bolt a lot of stuff to it ad hoc and build it into something that has all the bits an individual user wants.

But it sure makes an ugly dysfunctional inelegant camera build. Most professional camera OPERATORS a don’t like a box. I’m talking full time operators not DPs that own and operate a camera.

A box fits in all the boxes but does none of them well.

On a lot of sets you have different builds of different cameras to do different jobs. You don’t take your A camera body and de-rig it to use on a Steadicam. You get a third body and leave it built for Steadicam.

And most important for me, when you want a stripped back camera with the bare minimum to make it work but still shoot, you have a horrible box to hold.

All you box heads…where does the awesome BMD 5 inch screen go? You realise that means your box is huge right? Like bigger than a Komodo. Oh bolt it on you say. Ok so now there’s an arm that may or may not let go, and now you have to power it somehow so there’s cables for that and video has to be connected somehow.

How do I hand hold the body with just a lens on it? A box isn’t really ergonomic at all.

JB

The 5" monitor goes wherever you want it! I prefer mine on top as I like holding the camera at around chest height most of the time if i'm handheld and looking down on the screen slightly. Also, when on a tripod I NEVER stand directly behind the camera unless I have two pan handles with remote focus and zoom on each like what BMD has for their studio cameras. I am always beside and slightly behind the camera when on a tripod and having a movable and rotatable screen on top of the camera means I can point it to where suits me.
When I bought the Pocket, I too thought the big screen would be great but found I NEVER use it! It only works if you are holding the camera out away from your body like a mirrorless camera without an EVF and that really is the worst way to hold a camera for any length of time when shooting VIDEO.
I also often use a cine saddle when I shoot and the built in screen on the back is next to useless for this scenario getting it self buried in the saddle. I almost always use a micro V Mount battery on the back of my rig due to the fixed battery size in the Pocket's grip being too limited and this blocks the screen anyway. As a solo shooter most of the time, I'd rather have the convenience of many hours of run time on one battery than have to carry a pocket load of NPF550 batteries. I also shoot a lot of long take interviews and the convenience of a bigger battery can't be underestimated for a solo shooter. Also, the current design with a battery that ejects out of the bottom of the camera is a stills derived DSLR design and does not work well for video.
The big screen blocks the potential of being able to use larger batteries on the back unlike the Sony FX6 or RED Komodo. Sure their screens are nothing to write home about but I only use these screens to control the menus. I'd love a 5" screen that had a cable to the body so I could mount it wherever I liked and retained camera control like RED has been doing for a long time. Stick the same Pocket 6K Pro screen in it's own enclosure with a tilt and swivel base and have an interface cable that carries both power, video and control. .....no need to worry about separate video and Power cables, just the one to do it all. Like what Tilta made for the BMD Pocket EVF to allow it to be relocatable.

Again, by box I don't strictly mean a 'box' but there is nothing 'Ugly' about FX6, C300MkIII, Red, Sony Burano etc etc. Do you really find all these camera 'ugly' and does it really matter to you what a camera looks like if its functionally better in most scenarios? There is nothing inelegant about the cameras I mentioned above. The Sony FX6 has become the industry standard here in Australia for most professional solo shooters so to say that operators hate this form factor is plain false. It;s not perfect and the screen build quality/ mounting interface is questionable but many operators change the mount for a zacuto mount.
You say 'when you want to strip the camera back you still have a horrible box to hold" at least I CAN strip the handle off an FX6 or box style camera. I can't do that with the Pocket 6K, its large grip is permanently attached making it less than ideal for Gimbal work due to the lens mount being so off centre.
I'd almost be happy with the current Pocket form factor if the side grip was removable and the same 5" screen was relocatable with a tilt/swivel base. Doesn't need much more than that. That would mean you could have one or two NPF slots on the back for versatility. Oh and give me a removable top handle that has full sized XLR ports and audio level dials please. No solo shooter wants to adjust audio levels using a touch screen as it's extremely imprecise.

Sure, there is the Ursa Mini form factor which addresses many of these issues but that doesn't mount well to a gimbal smaller than the Ronin 2. I'd rather have a platform I can build to what suits ME and my situations no matter how large or small. I'd also like to have body I can make smaller than the URSA Mini even for run n gun handheld use. I started shooting Betacam decades ago and again, though URSA Mini would be great but I now find it un necessarily big.

Sure, you may have the luxury of having three camera bodies on big productions to keep each one rigged for a different use but solo shooters generally don't. I have two cameras that I keep rigged for handheld and gimbal work but often, need to stick the second camera on sticks for an interview so having something that can be easily rigged for different scenarios is very welcome.

When Im not shooting I also work as a 1st AC on larger productions and I've not heard one DP or operator say they like the form factor of my P6K Pro apart from when we have rigged them as B cameras to Alexa Mini on car rigs and that's a pretty niche scenario.

People want a box because they feel it’s somehow better for being adaptable and for “rigging” whatever that means. I mean I can show you some photos of “rigged” non box cameras but box heads don’t want to hear it because they think it’s somehow more flexible or somehow has more mounting places. It’s a strange blind spot to how we already rig other non box cameras.

Typically this is a user who wants one camera to do all things.

The biggest problem with a box is that it’s a pig for all situations. Yeah sure you can bolt a lot of stuff to it ad hoc and build it into something that has all the bits an individual user wants.

But it sure makes an ugly dysfunctional inelegant camera build. Most professional camera OPERATORS a don’t like a box. I’m talking full time operators not DPs that own and operate a camera.

A box fits in all the boxes but does none of them well.

On a lot of sets you have different builds of different cameras to do different jobs. You don’t take your A camera body and de-rig it to use on a Steadicam. You get a third body and leave it built for Steadicam.

And most important for me, when you want a stripped back camera with the bare minimum to make it work but still shoot, you have a horrible box to hold.

All you box heads…where does the awesome BMD 5 inch screen go? You realise that means your box is huge right? Like bigger than a Komodo. Oh bolt it on you say. Ok so now there’s an arm that may or may not let go, and now you have to power it somehow so there’s cables for that and video has to be connected somehow.

How do I hand hold the body with just a lens on it? A box isn’t really ergonomic at all.

JB

First off to previous comments about people requesting a box camera being a small minority. If that was the case, the red komodo wouldn't be a success. Kinifinity and Z-cam wouldn't exist.
It's also not just this forum. I've seen it across reddit, youtube, discord. "third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle".

Where does the monitor go? Wherever you want. Are you telling me you've never used an external monitor?
Maybe don't even include a monitor as standard. Portkeys has monitors that have wireless control for blackmagic cameras.

A caged dslr style camera would have just as many mounting points as a box but the issue is slop. I recently had to buy a new cage for my xh2s because the way I'm mounting the follow focus meant it kept slipping. I wouldn't have that issue with a camera that had proper mounting points.

"How do I hand hold the body with just a lens on it?" - chuck a top handle or side handle on. This is also the beauty of lanc ports. I'd say a dslr style body isn't ergonomic because it just becomes front heavy.

Then there's the issue of port location. Having all those ports sticking out of the left side of the body isn't great.

People also keep mentioning the popularity of the pockets or the fx3. But consider cost. They are both cheaper (even rigged out) than an ursa or fx6. But it doesn't have to be that way I think the first brand to put a "mirrorless" camera (from a cost/ ports/ features perspective) in a box with a v-mount back is going to be very popular.

You could also say - why not buy an usra. But they're huge and heavy. There's a huge market segment of single operators that I think a lot of people don't seem to understand.

Some rods on the bottom will move that vmount out the way. Everyone's asking for a box but at the same time everyone's jumping ship to stuff like the FX3 which are awful tiny photocamera style bodies. I always feel like there's a double standard when it comes to Blackmagic. Same with the rolling shutter. Panasonic and Sony (A7IV, FX9) all use similar sensors with similar (actually worse) rolling shutter performance and no one complains.

Just got rid of two of my BMD Pocket Cameras last week and bought an FX3 a few days ago. Had the new 6KFF had a better form factor and 10bit codec, I would have gone for that instead but it’s a non option now.

I rigged it the same as I had with the pocket cameras and it’s much more usable. The flip out screen can be placed sideways next to the mini v mount battery and the menus easy to access. Or, flipped out if I need to use touch tracking AF. The body is far smaller than the Pocket cameras and makes for a much more compact setup. The audio controls and XLr inputs on the handle also far easier to use than the pockets and four channels of audio comes in handy so often for the solo shooter. Despite BMD’s great menus, I find the FX3 easier to use once customised how I like.

My FX3 is setup a little like this……although I use Tilta parts which function a little differently.

Nothing to do with double standards, it’s just easier to use in different scenarios and the camera just slides out easily being in a Tilta cage and goes straight in a gimbal of required.

People want the 4K/6k/6k pro/12k in a Box/Gimbal style! YOU KNOW THAT! Please stop muddying the issue with absolute nonsense.

For the nth time, the only "nonsense" here is equating a handful of people on this forum, and your own preferences, with "the majority of users". Your marketing surveys are where, exactly?

Im blown away with how many times a select few have said "Only a handful of people on this forum want a box".

...Have any of you spent any time on BM's Instagram and looked at the upvoted comments for the last 4 years? literally the only thing people are talking about is how they want BM to move away from the terrible giant DSLR form factor. On top of that if you spend anytime in the BM Youtube Communities you would also see that there are tens of thousands of comments of users wanting BM to move away from it as well.

The fact that they released a "Extremely high end digital film camera" that uses tiny NPF batteries is so contradictory. High end digital film cameras need FF motors, Transmitters, and other accessories. These all REQUIRE having a battery that can support those accessories. Currently with this body its a pain in the a** to try and build out this camera with a larger battery system. If they at the very least made the screen movable with an extension cable then at least it would allow for a little more flexibility with the form factor.

[... Had the new 6KFF had a better form factor and 10bit codec, I would have gone for that instead but it’s a non option now...

Good you found something that meets your needs. When you imply the BMCC6K doesn’t have a “10bit codec,” I’m confused by what you mean. All currently BMD cameras have BRAW 12bit log recording. Did you really mean to say “10bit ProRes?”It’s unfortunate for many that ProRes isn’t available for the BMCC6K. Thanks for any clarification.

[... Had the new 6KFF had a better form factor and 10bit codec, I would have gone for that instead but it’s a non option now...

Good you found something that meets your needs. When you imply the BMCC6K doesn’t have a 10bit codec, I’m confused by what you mean. All currently BMD cameras have BRAW 12bit log recording. Did you really mean to say 10bit ProRes? It would s unfortunate for many that ProRes isn’t available for the BMCC6K. Thanks for any clarification.

Most productions or clients don’t want me to hand them 12Bit BRAW files. They want something like ProRes or XAVC-I. As great as Resolve is, many post/ production houses are using Avid.

The new camera fits less workflows now due to the omission of a 10bit codec. That’s why Arri and Red give you the option of RAW or a 10bit codec.

BRAW is great, Resolve is great but people want what they want to work with their workflows and for now, BRAW isn’t it.

Understand, thanks.