New BM Product Announcement on 9-14-23

People want a box because they feel it’s somehow better for being adaptable and for “rigging” whatever that means. I mean I can show you some photos of “rigged” non box cameras but box heads don’t want to hear it because they think it’s somehow more flexible or somehow has more mounting places. It’s a strange blind spot to how we already rig other non box cameras.

Typically this is a user who wants one camera to do all things.

The biggest problem with a box is that it’s a pig for all situations. Yeah sure you can bolt a lot of stuff to it ad hoc and build it into something that has all the bits an individual user wants.

But it sure makes an ugly dysfunctional inelegant camera build. Most professional camera OPERATORS a don’t like a box. I’m talking full time operators not DPs that own and operate a camera.

A box fits in all the boxes but does none of them well.

On a lot of sets you have different builds of different cameras to do different jobs. You don’t take your A camera body and de-rig it to use on a Steadicam. You get a third body and leave it built for Steadicam.

And most important for me, when you want a stripped back camera with the bare minimum to make it work but still shoot, you have a horrible box to hold.

All you box heads…where does the awesome BMD 5 inch screen go? You realise that means your box is huge right? Like bigger than a Komodo. Oh bolt it on you say. Ok so now there’s an arm that may or may not let go, and now you have to power it somehow so there’s cables for that and video has to be connected somehow.

How do I hand hold the body with just a lens on it? A box isn’t really ergonomic at all.

JB

The 5" monitor goes wherever you want it! I prefer mine on top as I like holding the camera at around chest height most of the time if i'm handheld and looking down on the screen slightly. Also, when on a tripod I NEVER stand directly behind the camera unless I have two pan handles with remote focus and zoom on each like what BMD has for their studio cameras. I am always beside and slightly behind the camera when on a tripod and having a movable and rotatable screen on top of the camera means I can point it to where suits me.
When I bought the Pocket, I too thought the big screen would be great but found I NEVER use it! It only works if you are holding the camera out away from your body like a mirrorless camera without an EVF and that really is the worst way to hold a camera for any length of time when shooting VIDEO.
I also often use a cine saddle when I shoot and the built in screen on the back is next to useless for this scenario getting it self buried in the saddle. I almost always use a micro V Mount battery on the back of my rig due to the fixed battery size in the Pocket's grip being too limited and this blocks the screen anyway. As a solo shooter most of the time, I'd rather have the convenience of many hours of run time on one battery than have to carry a pocket load of NPF550 batteries. I also shoot a lot of long take interviews and the convenience of a bigger battery can't be underestimated for a solo shooter. Also, the current design with a battery that ejects out of the bottom of the camera is a stills derived DSLR design and does not work well for video.
The big screen blocks the potential of being able to use larger batteries on the back unlike the Sony FX6 or RED Komodo. Sure their screens are nothing to write home about but I only use these screens to control the menus. I'd love a 5" screen that had a cable to the body so I could mount it wherever I liked and retained camera control like RED has been doing for a long time. Stick the same Pocket 6K Pro screen in it's own enclosure with a tilt and swivel base and have an interface cable that carries both power, video and control. .....no need to worry about separate video and Power cables, just the one to do it all. Like what Tilta made for the BMD Pocket EVF to allow it to be relocatable.

Again, by box I don't strictly mean a 'box' but there is nothing 'Ugly' about FX6, C300MkIII, Red, Sony Burano etc etc. Do you really find all these camera 'ugly' and does it really matter to you what a camera looks like if its functionally better in most scenarios? There is nothing inelegant about the cameras I mentioned above. The Sony FX6 has become the industry standard here in Australia for most professional solo shooters so to say that operators hate this form factor is plain false. It;s not perfect and the screen build quality/ mounting interface is questionable but many operators change the mount for a zacuto mount.
You say 'when you want to strip the camera back you still have a horrible box to hold" at least I CAN strip the handle off an FX6 or box style camera. I can't do that with the Pocket 6K, its large grip is permanently attached making it less than ideal for Gimbal work due to the lens mount being so off centre.
I'd almost be happy with the current Pocket form factor if the side grip was removable and the same 5" screen was relocatable with a tilt/swivel base. Doesn't need much more than that. That would mean you could have one or two NPF slots on the back for versatility. Oh and give me a removable top handle that has full sized XLR ports and audio level dials please. No solo shooter wants to adjust audio levels using a touch screen as it's extremely imprecise.

Sure, there is the Ursa Mini form factor which addresses many of these issues but that doesn't mount well to a gimbal smaller than the Ronin 2. I'd rather have a platform I can build to what suits ME and my situations no matter how large or small. I'd also like to have body I can make smaller than the URSA Mini even for run n gun handheld use. I started shooting Betacam decades ago and again, though URSA Mini would be great but I now find it un necessarily big.

Sure, you may have the luxury of having three camera bodies on big productions to keep each one rigged for a different use but solo shooters generally don't. I have two cameras that I keep rigged for handheld and gimbal work but often, need to stick the second camera on sticks for an interview so having something that can be easily rigged for different scenarios is very welcome.

When Im not shooting I also work as a 1st AC on larger productions and I've not heard one DP or operator say they like the form factor of my P6K Pro apart from when we have rigged them as B cameras to Alexa Mini on car rigs and that's a pretty niche scenario.

What is stopping you from using a Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K G2?

They could have easily taken a survey:

[ ] Box/Gimbal style
[ ] HUGE DSLR style

People here in this forum would have you think that the majority of users would have chosen “HUGE DSLR style”.

Oh… The Micro Camera is NOT what people want as a “Box” camera. People want the 4K/6k/6k pro/12k in a Box/Gimbal style! YOU KNOW THAT! Please stop muddying the issue with absolute nonsense. “Oh, you have the Micro…”

So you don't have particular reason not to use the Micro?

What is stopping you from using a Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K G2?

Its unnecessarily small for my needs which means it has many compromises operationally. . It wasn't designed to be used in the same way as an FX3, FX6, C300 etc etc. It's for live or studio use and is great for that.

What's stopping BMD making a camera that people have asked for for years is the question you should be asking!!

Last year IBC this was at BMD stand.

Just to be clear, this is not really what I'm asking for. People are taking the word 'box' far too literally.

I'm talking more about something along the lines of Burano, FX6, Kinefinity etc. doesn't cost any more to make really.

I've put my BMPCC4K on a Moza Air2 without any troubles, with a motorized focus unit also, though I haven't tried a 6k on it.

Would an Ursa/FX6 body style work more easily on a gimbal? Quite likely. I've been tempted to get such a camera. But this was workable.

I've rigged my BMPCC4K for use with sticks and a large teleprompter and field monitor, with batteries and whatnot. Works.

I also rigged it for shoulder mount, with external batteries part of the counterweight setup. Works.

I do wish the monitor tilted like my old GH3 does, as that makes using it for controls much easier on sticks.

And having ports for connections on the top would be useful to me when rigging, sure.

Other than that, I'm OK. It works. The image is great for the cost. That's all I care about.

I normally shoot BRAW, but occasionally need straight outta cam clips. So the new camera's lack of in-cam 10 bit, like ProRes, would be a definite pain point, I can agree with that.

And in general, I learned a long time ago that everyone does everything differently. So I don't expect others to share my views, and am always curious about why others like what they like. Very fascinating.

Past that, one or two participants of this thread have displayed quite offensive and irrational comments about age. Sadly. But ah well. That dramatically weakens (for many others) the potency of their other statements. Which is also sad, really.

I would wish a more adult, rational conversation. Where disagreement is expected and appreciated, rather than attacked.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

What is stopping you from using a Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K G2?

Its unnecessarily small for my needs which means it has many compromises operationally. . It wasn't designed to be used in the same way as an FX3, FX6, C300 etc etc. It's for live or studio use and is great for that.

What's stopping BMD making a camera that people have asked for for years is the question you should be asking!!

You're making excuses "Oh not that one. It's too small."

You literally pointed at the Fx3, and that camera is shaped like a DSLR. Not only that, a Fx3 & a FX6 aren't even the same form factor.

Last year IBC this was at BMD stand.

Just to be clear, this is not really what I'm asking for. People are taking the word 'box' far too literally.

I'm talking more about something along the lines of Burano, FX6, Kinefinity etc. doesn't cost any more to make really.

You clearly have NO clue what you want. How can you expect BMD to make something when you can't articulate what you want?

The Burano is a $25k camera by the way.

Not only that the measurements are in line with the Ursa 12K than a Kinefinity.

Burano:
Dimensions (W x H x D) 5.7 x 5.6 x 8.6" / 145.7 x 142.5 x 218.1 mm (Without Protrusions

Ursa 12k:
Dimensions (W x H x D) 9.2 x 5.92 x 5.87" / 23.4 x 15.04 x 14.91 cm

something along the lines of Burano, FX6, Kinefinity etc. doesn't cost any more to make really.

How is that the conclusion from that list?

Look at the camera prices:

The Burano is $25,000
The FX6 is $5,998
The Kinifinity LF models start at $6,198

BMD's new 6K Cinema Camera is $2,595

Its unnecessarily small for my needs which means...

Goldilocks

BMD representative at IBC:

On dynamic range:
"What we're seeing in the detail and noise levels with this camera is a very clear and very concise 13 stops". (3:55min)

On OLPF (moire & IR):
"...has a specifically designed OLPF for the sensor. What you see there is a reduction in moire and a quite aggressive IR cut as well." (4:25min)

something along the lines of Burano, FX6, Kinefinity etc. doesn't cost any more to make really.

How is that the conclusion from that list?

Look at the camera prices:

The Burano is $25,000
The FX6 is $5,998
The Kinifinity LF models start at $6,198

BMD's new 6K Cinema Camera is $2,595

Those prices are not because of the form factor I can guarantee you that.

Also, I referenced Burano because a comment was made here that operators don’t want ‘box’ cameras and yet the Burano, which is designed more for solo operators is far more Box than oversized DSLR.

We know a bit more when CineD do their test. Not saying they are accurate but useful to know in comparison to other cameras they have tested.

Its unnecessarily small for my needs which means...

Goldilocks

It’s not designed to be used in the way that the other cameras are. You didn’t bother quoting that though did you.

So many Fanboys that just want to hear what they want.

Does anyone know if the Micro Studio Camera 4K G2 has Bluetooth and gyro stabilisation?

I'm interested in putting one in a hard to reach spot where I am hoping I can start/stop from my phone. And gyro is just brillaint.

What is stopping you from using a Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K G2?

Its unnecessarily small for my needs which means it has many compromises operationally. . It wasn't designed to be used in the same way as an FX3, FX6, C300 etc etc. It's for live or studio use and is great for that.

What's stopping BMD making a camera that people have asked for for years is the question you should be asking!!

You're making excuses "Oh not that one. It's too small."

You literally pointed at the Fx3, and that camera is shaped like a DSLR. Not only that, a Fx3 & a FX6 aren't even the same form factor.

The FX3 has many more buttons that are useful for video shooters than the Micro STUDIO camera. It’s not designed for the same purpose. Saying that because I am happy using an FX3 then I should be happy using a Micro STUDIO Camera in the same situations is plain silly. They are designed for completely different types of shooting.
Yes, the FX3 is shaped kinda like a DSLR but also kind of like a small rectangular box. It doesn’t have a huge grip on the side makeling it lob sided, it doesn’t have a big screen on the back that I can’t see from side on, it’s far more user friendly (can’t believe if saying this about Sony) than the Pockets on more scenarios.

I’ve mentioned quite a few cameras, there is no perfect one. There are many designed that people like but not many people are asking for a cinema camera in the oversized DSLR form factor like BMD now make.

Its unnecessarily small for my needs which means it has many compromises operationally. . It wasn't designed to be used in the same way as an FX3, FX6, C300 etc etc. It's for live or studio use and is great for that.

What's stopping BMD making a camera that people have asked for for years is the question you should be asking!!

You're making excuses "Oh not that one. It's too small."

You literally pointed at the Fx3, and that camera is shaped like a DSLR. Not only that, a Fx3 & a FX6 aren't even the same form factor.

The FX3 has many more buttons that are useful for video shooters than the Micro STUDIO camera. It’s not designed for the same purpose. Saying that because I am happy using an FX3 then I should be happy using a Micro STUDIO Camera in the same situations is plain silly. They are designed for completely different types of shooting.
Yes, the FX3 is shaped kinda like a DSLR but also kind of like a small rectangular box. It doesn’t have a huge grip on the side makeling it lob sided, it doesn’t have a big screen on the back that I can’t see from side on, it’s far more user friendly (can’t believe if saying this about Sony) than the Pockets on more scenarios.

I’ve mentioned quite a few cameras, there is no perfect one. There are many designed that people like but not many people are asking for a cinema camera in the oversized DSLR form factor like BMD now make.

You definitely can't make your mind up. Fx3, which is $3800, is shaped like a dSLR. Then you mention the FX6, which isn't the same shape. Then you mention the Burano which is the same size as the Ursa 12k.

Articulate what you want. Because just like others have pointed out, you are all over the place.

If the Burano is what you want, why are you comparing a $2500 FF Pocket camera to a camera that you should be comparing the Ursa 12K OLPF to?

Does anyone know if the Micro Studio Camera 4K G2 has Bluetooth and gyro stabilisation?

I'm interested in putting one in a hard to reach spot where I am hoping I can start/stop from my phone. And gyro is just brillaint.

From what I heard, No on Bluetooth but yes on gyro.

something along the lines of Burano, FX6, Kinefinity etc. doesn't cost any more to make really.

How is that the conclusion from that list?

Look at the camera prices:

The Burano is $25,000
The FX6 is $5,998
The Kinifinity LF models start at $6,198

BMD's new 6K Cinema Camera is $2,595

Those prices are not because of the form factor I can guarantee you that.

Also, I referenced Burano because a comment was made here that operators don’t want ‘box’ cameras and yet the Burano, which is designed more for solo operators is far more Box than oversized DSLR.

You are BSing.

Burano:
Dimensions (W x H x D) 5.7 x 5.6 x 8.6" / 145.7 x 142.5 x 218.1 mm (Without Protrusions

Ursa 12k:
Dimensions (W x H x D) 9.2 x 5.92 x 5.87" / 23.4 x 15.04 x 14.91 cm

So many Fanboys that just want to hear what they want.

You're right, and the worse are the ones on BMD payroll, producing cheeezy motel clips.

Dunno why people cannot exchange arguments in bona fide.

All you box heads…
JB

This is insulting to most of the potential buyers. If Blackmagic Design is smart enough, there should be a disclosure between them and the promoters on how to react publically.

Arri - all cameras are box cameras; RED - all cameras are box cameras; SONY - all cameras are box cameras; BMD (Ursa Mini) - pretty much a box camera.

So by a "box camera" this is what the majority probably mean. There are different shades of boxiness - for me for example the shades go from Komodo=most box to Ursa Mini=least box.

I don't know what is different this time, but this FF camera promotion is becoming a real PR disaster all across the board.

P.S.: Dear Blackmagic Design,

As an Ursa Mini Pro G2 (+P6KPro) owner I am straightforward MAD at you because you have put RGB clipping histogram in freakin' iPhones, while I still have to film in gen4 and can get to gen5 only in post.

Really, and I mean, REALLY?!!

Only the best,
Yours truly

The images ive seen look great! Planning on preordering at a local shop. Does anyone know when they ship?

Most professional camera OPERATORS a don’t like a box. I’m talking full time operators not DPs that own and operate a camera.

This is so funny to me because those same operators would hate this form factor even more.

It depends.

I agree this form factor isn’t what anyone would ask for. But for certain jobs it’s perfect. I have many examples of my operators using pockets hand held and stripped down.

That’s when they’re at their best BECAUSE they have everything built in. But I’m not going to shoot a whole show on one or force an operator to use one when it isn’t the best build for the shot. That’s not what I was saying.

But on full size cameras most operators I know don’t love the box shape of the Alexa Mini or RED. Look what Panavising did for the DXL2. That’s a camera built for operators and ACS. I just think a lot of users posting here wouldn’t understand WHY a DXL2 is so different for an operator from looking at the image. Most of the design features aren’t obvious till you use it.

The box isn’t a panacea. I use box shaped cameras all the time. It’s not the solution to all things. So far most of the reasons posted here about why box cameras are inherently better don’t seem to be all that legit and instead generate personal attacks.

The touch screen is one of the worst parts, IMO. Do you know how much it sucks to use those in colder climates? Or how even 1500nits still isn't as much as you'd really want to power through finger smudges in direct sunlight. The 5" screen isn't a selling point in a professional context.

I think the mistake is thinking it’s a monitor.

It’s the camera interface. It’s where you quckily change settings and the UI has been lauded on every set I’ve been using them on.

I think of it as the control panel that in a pinch, you can also operate from.

Arris god awful mini EVF menu screen is a joke when you put them side by side.

Komodo top screen? Even worse.

JB

I have many examples of my operators using pockets hand held and stripped down.

That’s when they’re at their best BECAUSE they have everything built in.

Having shot for years with the pocket I have to disagree. That may work with wide lenses but for anything normal or longer, especially on the BMPCC6K or BMPCC4K with a speed booster, footage gets micro-jittery very fast and in a very non-cinematic way (you can sense the light weight of the camera). Just like any DSLR would without stabilization.

As an A-cam, you cannot use that form factor without a rig or stabilized lenses imo (unless you're fine with micro-jitter), rendering it more or less useless for it's intended purpose.

You definitely can't make your mind up. Fx3, which is $3800, is shaped like a dSLR. Then you mention the FX6, which isn't the same shape. Then you mention the Burano which is the same size as the Ursa 12k.

Articulate what you want. Because just like others have pointed out, you are all over the place.

If the Burano is what you want, why are you comparing a $2500 FF Pocket camera to a camera that you should be comparing the Ursa 12K OLPF to?

I’d be happy with any of those cameras form factors. There is no perfect one but all of them get far closer to a well thought out ergonomic design than the oversized DSLR that is the pocket series. Sure the fx3 still has a grip but it’s so small that it’s almost not there and does not make the camera so lob sided like the pocket. It also has XLR connectors on the handle just like an fx6 and it’s screen doesn’t become unusable if I need to add a Vlock battery.. Again, I’ve tried them all and by far the camera body I like using least….by far is the Pocket.
AGAIN, I referenced the Burano because someone here said that solo operators don’t want a box but then a camera targeted at solo operators comes out like the Burano that ….you guessed it, looks like a box and no one I’ve heard of so far is complaining about its form factor are they?
Saying that ‘but Burano is $25000’ is plain stupid. Do you think it’s $25000 because of the shape that it’s in? Really? It costs $25000 to make a box?

Again, yes I’ve mentioned many cameras. An FX3 with top handle and v lock on the back is surprisingly similar in feel to the FX6 despite the different body shape. I’m happy with both.

There is more than one way of doing something hence why I haven’t exactly articulated what I want……even though to the open minded here, I really have.

on full size cameras most operators I know don’t love the box shape of the Alexa Mini or RED. Look what Panavising did for the DXL2. That’s a camera built for operators and ACS. I just think a lot of users posting here wouldn’t understand WHY a DXL2 is so different for an operator from looking at the image. Most of the design features aren’t obvious till you use it.

The box isn’t a panacea. I use box shaped cameras all the time. It’s not the solution to all things. So far most of the reasons posted here about why box cameras are inherently better don’t seem to be all that legit and instead generate personal attacks.

The touch screen is one of the worst parts, IMO. Do you know how much it sucks to use those in colder climates? Or how even 1500nits still isn't as much as you'd really want to power through finger smudges in direct sunlight. The 5" screen isn't a selling point in a professional context.

I think the mistake is thinking it’s a monitor.

It’s the camera interface. It’s where you quckily change settings and the UI has been lauded on every set I’ve been using them on.

I think of it as the control panel that in a pinch, you can also operate from.

Arris god awful mini EVF menu screen is a joke when you put them side by side.

Komodo top screen? Even worse.

JB

The Alexa Mini was never designed to be a main camera or used by solo operators. I agree, it had a terrible form factor. Many people might say ‘but a box is a box’ like was said to me by another here asking why I couldn’t use the micro studio camera.
It’s all about button and port layout. Once you put a cage and battery on the back of the Alexa Mini, it bacame hard to access the card door. The camera had a lack of buttons. Again just because I say I want something more box like does not mean I want an Alexa mini!

I also completely agree about the touch screen not being a selling point. You’re right, it shouldn’t be thought of as a monitor, just a place where you can access menus while using a better screen where you want it to auit the shot you are trying to get. Hence why I surprisingly found myself quite happy with the rather small monitor on the fX3 or FX6. It’s really hard to access that huge monitor on the back of the pocket when you have a proper battery on there so is there any real point to it?

John, you also wrote “ So far most of the reasons posted here about why box cameras are inherently better don’t seem to be all that legit and instead generate personal attacks. ”


Can you tell me which reasons aren’t legit?

Also, yes…..the personal attacks on this discussion really aren’t required!

I don't think I remember such a bad response to a BM camera before. I guess in a world where IQ is very close across the board now, usability and practicality becomes paramount.

Seems to me that plenty of high end content is shot with box cameras. Do the the Alexa Minis not count for some reason?

The same can be said of LF sensors. Every film nominated for a Cinematography Oscar in 2023 was shot LF or 65mm. The same anti LF commentary is tired and dated.

It's true that the Komodo touch screen is pretty useless due to its size, fortunately there are manual buttons next to the screen that make navigation simple and quick. The overall design of the camera is top shelf, the only thing I would change is the addition of an HDMI output. I can attach both V-Lock batteries and a locking EF mount without rails or bulky rigging. The Komodo's monitor being on top is sublime as it allows OSD, False color, whatever you want on the small screen and allows the output feed to be clean.

The Micro 4K G2 in contrast, inherits the same design flaws from its predecessor. Cables coming out of both sides, menu buttons on the front, no internal media, underpowered battery. Frankly I don't see how navigation of the menus is possible using only up down arrows when the interface was designed around a touch screen. The only design improvement was the addition of a dedicated DC input, the predecessor was powered through the DB15 connector via an obnoxious breakout cable.

The new BMCC checks a lot of boxes (schnarff), but it uses the same tired SLR design and the omission of Prores is a little shocking. I get that BM and Apple are fighting over Raw market share but I don't see this trend of Braw only cameras helping Blackmagic's cause.

Good Luck

You are BSing.

Burano:
Dimensions (W x H x D) 5.7 x 5.6 x 8.6" / 145.7 x 142.5 x 218.1 mm (Without Protrusions

Ursa 12k:
Dimensions (W x H x D) 9.2 x 5.92 x 5.87" / 23.4 x 15.04 x 14.91 cm

How so?

Dimensions aren’t the same and the design isn’t the same.

A good design is much more than getting dimensions in the same ball park. Those dimensions above are quite different so what point are you trying to make here?

Again, I just explained why I included Burano here .

There is more than one way of doing something hence why I haven’t exactly articulated what I want……even though to the open minded here, I really have.

Which repeats your pattern: my arguments may not be responsive or consistent but the good people here will know I'm right anyway....

In the face of straightforward objections to [actual] box cameras -- with no thought to comparing them to BMD DSLRs for professional A-cam work, nobody here has said the latter are "better" for that purpose, or that the latest BMD model is an exalted piece of equipment -- you've turned everything from an FX6 to a C300 into a box camera, then declared that only fan boys say otherwise.

It's also odd to hear you complain, with an exclamation point, that *other* people are making "personal attacks".

There is more than one way of doing something hence why I haven’t exactly articulated what I want……even though to the open minded here, I really have.

Which repeats your pattern: my arguments may not be responsive or consistent but the good people here will know I'm right anyway....

In the face of straightforward objections to [actual] box cameras -- with no thought to comparing them to BMD DSLRs for professional A-cam work, nobody here has said the latter are "better" for that purpose, or that the latest BMD model is an exalted piece of equipment -- you've turned everything from an FX6 to a C300 into a box camera, then declared that only fan boys say otherwise.

It's also odd to hear you complain, with an exclamation point, that *other* people are making "personal attacks".

Oh right, yes I made a comment about the ‘open minded’ who didn’t just think ‘a box is a box’ and you took it personally?

I’ve been told I’m a BS artist, incoherent and that my points are invalid because what I say doesn’t match your beliefs.

What happen if you have a damaged screen on your dSLR style BMD body, or even on the Ursa and the camera are out of warranty? Menu control from the screen would be pretty much useless. Not so with a box camera.
Damaged screen, get a another one.

Seems to me that plenty of high end content is shot with box cameras.

I don't think anyone disputes that. But a smaller manufacturer serving what amounts to a consumer market might be more concerned with what form is likeliest to sell to people who want to spend $2600 for a camera that they can carry around.

All the guys who want a 6K box for $2600 just might have to look elsewhere -- or pay more?

Seems to me that plenty of high end content is shot with box cameras.

I don't think anyone disputes that. But a smaller manufacturer serving what amounts to a consumer market might be more concerned with what form is likeliest to sell to people who want to spend $2600 for a camera that they can carry around.

All the guys who want a 6K box for $2600 just might have to look elsewhere -- or pay more?

I did pay a small amount more for a better form factor and that also came with many more features which are proving to be vary handy but had to leave BMD after over 5 years of using their cameras as BMD doesn’t offer me an upgrade path after the Pocket apart from the rather large URSA Mini Pro

This new sensor and mount would have been a great opportunity for BMD to release the camera that was more close to what people were asking for and closed that big gap in their product line. And while you seem to think that making a more box style camera somehow comes with much greater cost, this is not the case.

Are you suggesting that the current design can’t be improved upon at all?

I believe all former Pocket cameras sold well despite the odd form factor. Certainly not because of it.

It's been a source of complaints from the start, mounting it on gimbals was a pita, powering it still is so you have to rig it out anyways (or micro manage batteries the whole day). The offered battery grip may be great for a photographer but it's plain dumb for a cinema camera (think shoulder rig).

Box or no box, I really hope they let go of the (giant's -) "Pocket" form factor for their next cameras.

I did pay a small amount more for a better form factor and that also came with many more features which are proving to be vary handy but had to leave BMD after over 5 years of using their cameras as BMD doesn’t offer me an upgrade path after the Pocket apart from the rather large URSA Mini Pro

This new sensor and mount would have been a great opportunity for BMD to release the camera that was more close to what people were asking for and closed that big gap in their product line. And while you seem to think that making a more box style camera somehow comes with much greater cost, this is not the case.

Are you suggesting that the current design can’t be improved upon at all?

You brought up the Burano but that camera is the same size as the Ursa 12k.

You brought up the FX3, and that's a Dslr. You try to DQ the Micro Studio Camera 4K G2, for not having enough buttons.
What buttons the, Dslr shaped, FX3 has that the Micro Studio Camera doesn't?

Oh right, yes I made a comment about the ‘open minded’ who didn’t just think ‘a box is a box’ and you took it personally?

I’ve been told I’m a BS artist, incoherent and that my points are invalid because what I say doesn’t match your beliefs.

You keep asking for "what the people want" but can't describe what exactly you are looking for the moment you are challenged for more detail, your entire point changes. You are moving goal posts.

I believe all former Pocket cameras sold well despite the odd form factor. Certainly not because of it.

It's been a source of complaints from the start, mounting it on gimbals was a pita, powering it still is so you have to rig it out anyways (or micro manage batteries the whole day). The offered battery grip may be great for a photographer but it's plain dumb for a cinema camera (think shoulder rig).

Box or no box, I really hope they let go of the (giant's -) "Pocket" form factor for their next cameras.

It's crazy because they want a box but still have to rig a box out as it eat batteries.

That Pocket DSLR form factor is the same form factor as a Canon C70.

Well I suppose here is the answer for all those who would prefer a box form factor and or are concerned about the effects of rolling shutter for shots with action or movement. The Z CAM E2-M5G 5K global shutter camera is your camera.

https://www.cined.com/z-cam-e2-m5g-anno ... -and-more/

Perhaps we can move the conversation beyond form factor now and dig into what the BMCC 6k is, instead of all that it is not.

Well I suppose here is the answer for all those who would prefer a box form factor and or are concerned about the effects of rolling shutter for shots with action or movement. The Z CAM E2-M5G 5K global shutter camera is your camera.

https://www.cined.com/z-cam-e2-m5g-anno ... -and-more/

Perhaps we can move the conversation beyond form factor now and dig into what the BMCC 6k is, instead of all that it is not.

Read the comments on the YouTube video. There are people complaining about the form factor.

Well I suppose here is the answer for all those who would prefer a box form factor and or are concerned about the effects of rolling shutter for shots with action or movement. The Z CAM E2-M5G 5K global shutter camera is your camera.

https://www.cined.com/z-cam-e2-m5g-anno ... -and-more/

Perhaps we can move the conversation beyond form factor now and dig into what the BMCC 6k is, instead of all that it is not.

Read the comments on the YouTube video. There are people complaining about the form factor.

Ha! That sounds about right.

I have many examples of my operators using pockets hand held and stripped down.

That’s when they’re at their best BECAUSE they have everything built in.

Having shot for years with the pocket I have to disagree. That may work with wide lenses but for anything normal or longer, especially on the BMPCC6K or BMPCC4K with a speed booster, footage gets micro-jittery very fast and in a very non-cinematic way (you can sense the light weight of the camera). Just like any DSLR would without stabilization.

As an A-cam, you cannot use that form factor without a rig or stabilized lenses imo (unless you're fine with micro-jitter), rendering it more or less useless for it's intended purpose.

Cmon. I never said it was an A camera.

I’ll disagree that it’s hard to hand hold. I do it all the time and it works great. That’s what it does well _for me_

But what do I know.

JB

Mentioned above operators hated the Alexa Mini box camera design. I’m one of them. I was so happy when ARRI announced the Alexa 35. It’s far better for operation.

And, RED: on most sets I’ll joke “well it’s not an ARRI” to explain while I diss aspects of their design. I’ve never liked the design of Red cameras with regards to “box.” The Ranger series and Panavised Reds are better in design for operation.

I was fine with the original Cinema Camera 2.5K for what it gave us on such a low cost level. But when the URSA Mini was announced I was ecstatic! The URSA Mini Pro is built so well. Are there improvements I’d like to see? Yes. But it’s built in a very modular design.

So what do I want in an updated URSA Mini Pro body?
1) Timecode Lemo Separate from the Genlock SDI.
2) Lens Motor Lemo up front in place of the Hirose Port
3) one more SDI Out on back.
4) Updated Viewfinder Design that works like the Wooden Camera Modification so that we can maneuver the Viewfinder into better positions. This includes updated ports for the Viewfinder.
5) Wireless Video integration into back between Battery Mount and Camera Body.
6) Side Plate integration like the SmallRig or Wooden Camera Side Plates that add more mounting points and such. But built into the body from beginning.
7) More Mounting Holes on BMD Top Handle.

And those are mainly just physical body changes. That doesn’t get into the other requests I’ve made over the years like Dual Card Redundancy Recording. Hopefully the Simultaneous Proxy Recording comes to the URSA line soon as well. That’s very nice.

Of course I want CFExpress Card Slots. But that’s been said many times before. The other pints are mainly body changes beyond the media slot. And most of those above requests are ports for connecting accessories.


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The images ive seen look great! Planning on preordering at a local shop. Does anyone know when they ship?

Order now with shipping expected in October according to a BMD rep. No precise date given.

I think we are all looking forward to hearing back from you after you’ve had a chance to kick the tires.

I have a local shop that sells BMD stuff and I'm on the list for preorder! Super excited about this one.

As for the form factor...
I do a lot of travel, mostly to remote parts of the earth when I'm filming docs, and the need for a low profile is almost a necessity. When I took my Pocket 6k Pro to Japan, I was just like any other tourist. When I went to Burundi, Africa, I was able to move quickly and quietly around both the capital and villages without much fuss.

Sure, it's really fun to rig stuff out, like the Ursa (even though you just need a lens, media, and a battery to make that work!), but man, I LOVE shooting handheld on the Pocket 6k Pro (soon to be using the BMCC6k!) with just a single image stabilized zoom.

AND I get to utilize my investment in NP-F batteries, haha

There is more than one way of doing something hence why I haven’t exactly articulated what I want……even though to the open minded here, I really have.

Which repeats your pattern: my arguments may not be responsive or consistent but the good people here will know I'm right anyway....

In the face of straightforward objections to [actual] box cameras -- with no thought to comparing them to BMD DSLRs for professional A-cam work, nobody here has said the latter are "better" for that purpose, or that the latest BMD model is an exalted piece of equipment -- you've turned everything from an FX6 to a C300 into a box camera, then declared that only fan boys say otherwise.

It's also odd to hear you complain, with an exclamation point, that *other* people are making "personal attacks".

^+1

I have a local shop that sells BMD stuff and I'm on the list for preorder! Super excited about this one.

As for the form factor...
I do a lot of travel, mostly to remote parts of the earth when I'm filming docs, and the need for a low profile is almost a necessity…

Congratulations and spot on. With battery grip and some spare batteries one will be able to shoot for several hours, so no need to mount a big battery that obscures that monitor. Will be interesting to hear your feedback and how many nits you needed on the monitor for shooting in daylight.

The box people's problem is very easy to fix, just get 5 or 6 thousand dollars and buy something else. If you havent the money buy this, or just keep dreaming that someday you can make your project.
I have never seen anything like this done to another company in the world. They are begging bmd to quench their need because they either dont have the money or want something else. The camera works and does what is needed, I wont buy it because its not for me. this should be enough. Any thing else, their is a wish list forum. Ive been asking for AF and evf since forever, not seen it, so? I get a Sony. So many cry babies. Guys have dignity.

Ricardo marty

Well I suppose here is the answer for all those who would prefer a box form factor and or are concerned about the effects of rolling shutter for shots with action or movement. The Z CAM E2-M5G 5K global shutter camera is your camera.

https://www.cined.com/z-cam-e2-m5g-anno ... -and-more/
...

Thanks, Dan. Combining a possible 16 stops HDR with a global shutter sensor from a well-know sensor supplier. 5K for $4K in a tiny cube. Some strange maximum frame rates like 94 fps and 116 fps though. I did appreciate the ZCAM representative’s calm and competent delivery in the interview. Wasn’t sure how important was the fact that this is a mFT camera with a smaller sensor compared to BMCC6K.

Didn’t sound like ZCAM had an exclusive deal on this sensor so perhaps that’s something on BMDs roadmap. I’m not salivating at the thought of buying a ZCAM camera, but if BMD was looking at this sensor later in a 6K version with CFexpress with more standard frame rates… At some point in the future, this could headline a new family of cameras for BMD as I alluded to in another post.

I have many examples of my operators using pockets hand held and stripped down.

That’s when they’re at their best BECAUSE they have everything built in.

Having shot for years with the pocket I have to disagree. That may work with wide lenses but for anything normal or longer, especially on the BMPCC6K or BMPCC4K with a speed booster, footage gets micro-jittery very fast and in a very non-cinematic way (you can sense the light weight of the camera). Just like any DSLR would without stabilization.

As an A-cam, you cannot use that form factor without a rig or stabilized lenses imo (unless you're fine with micro-jitter), rendering it more or less useless for it's intended purpose.

Cmon. I never said it was an A camera.

I’ll disagree that it’s hard to hand hold. I do it all the time and it works great. That’s what it does well _for me_

But what do I know.

JB

So you're saying BMD is selling B-cameras?!
Great that it worked for you when you used it hand held as a B-cam, I used it for years as an A-cam that has to run the whole day and using it hand held without any rigging absolutely did not work for me at all for serious work. Let's just disagree then.

I did pay a small amount more for a better form factor and that also came with many more features which are proving to be vary handy but had to leave BMD after over 5 years of using their cameras as BMD doesn’t offer me an upgrade path after the Pocket apart from the rather large URSA Mini Pro

This new sensor and mount would have been a great opportunity for BMD to release the camera that was more close to what people were asking for and closed that big gap in their product line. And while you seem to think that making a more box style camera somehow comes with much greater cost, this is not the case.

Are you suggesting that the current design can’t be improved upon at all?

You brought up the Burano but that camera is the same size as the Ursa 12k.

You brought up the FX3, and that's a Dslr. You try to DQ the Micro Studio Camera 4K G2, for not having enough buttons.
What buttons the, Dslr shaped, FX3 has that the Micro Studio Camera doesn't?

Oh right, yes I made a comment about the ‘open minded’ who didn’t just think ‘a box is a box’ and you took it personally?

I’ve been told I’m a BS artist, incoherent and that my points are invalid because what I say doesn’t match your beliefs.

You keep asking for "what the people want" but can't describe what exactly you are looking for the moment you are challenged for more detail, your entire point changes. You are moving goal posts.

You read what you want to read and leave out large parts of what you don’t want to hear despite me clarifying numerous times.

I have come up with numerous ways on how the current design can be improved. A more ‘box’ like camera would be great (if you’ve ever removed the top handle and grip off an fx6 you will know that the body is a box despite you thinking otherwise), yes and fx3 is a mirrorless design but I have already given reasons on why I find it a lot more acceptable than the caricature DSLR form factor of the Pocket cameras. But again, you ridicule rather than saying anything really constructive. I’ve come up with plenty of ideas while others just sit here an poo poo all of them. So I have to ask again….
Do those here defending the current form factor think it’s a great design for most users? Is there really no improving it?

And John, how are my reasons for wanting a box somehow invalid? Strange to make a comment like that with zero explanation. Pretty silly argument. “Your points are invalid” and giving zero explanation.

Seems like people on this forum just want to attack others with different ideas to what the shills have!

The box people's problem is very easy to fix, just get 5 or 6 thousand dollars and buy something else. If you havent the money buy this, or just keep dreaming that someday you can make your project.
I have never seen anything like this done to another company in the world. They are begging bmd to quench their need because they either dont have the money or want something else. The camera works and does what is needed, I wont buy it because its not for me. this should be enough. Any thing else, their is a wish list forum. Ive been asking for AF and evf since forever, not seen it, so? I get a Sony. So many cry babies. Guys have dignity.

Ricardo marty

This is not the case, I have been a BMD user for years and would have liked a progression path after outgrowing the Pocket cameras. Blackmagic don’t provide one and I’m letting them know. There is a saying, if you don’t ask you don’t get”.
Does progress happen if people don’t express new ideas?
Calling people ‘cry babies is pretty darn childish on your part.

Better design doesn’t come from putting up and shutting up, it comes from discussion.

Forums are for discussion, if you can’t bring anything more to the table than ‘you're a cry baby’ or saying ‘your wrong’ without giving any reasons then what kind of discussion is that.