BMCC6K Facts and Findings

Man, can I just say how much I appreciate the support from Blackmagic for stuff like this.

Totally agree!

I have heard a couple of people mention that the battery indicator light goes red way before the battery life is actually depleted. One person mentioned as much as 40 minutes early. So hopefully that is something that can be fixed in the future. Not sure if that is possible.

I have heard a couple of people mention that the battery indicator light goes red way before the battery life is actually depleted. One person mentioned as much as 40 minutes early. So hopefully that is something that can be fixed in the future. Not sure if that is possible.

Just powered mine up with a fresh NPF-570 and I had it running maybe 30 minutes before the battery indicator went red. I’ll be running v-mount nearly 100% of the time, but internal battery is not great (no surprise).

Quick update I haven’t seen anywhere else: I just tested my BMCC6k with the Sigma MC-21 EF-L adapter and while it does control aperture for the Canon 70-200 f/2.8L II (and III), it does NOT power the stabilizer in the lens. This is a HUGE bummer as it’s one of my favorite full-frame interview lenses with stabilization.

When toggling the physical Stabilizer On/Off switch, you can even see the the 6k menu item respond on the second Setup page under “Lens Stabilization”…but it is obvious that the stabilizer in the lens isn’t running (based both on visual results and audible sound).

I’m not sure if a firmware update of either the BMCC6k or Sigma MC-21 would address this as neither are explicitly designed for this use case.

EDIT: Updating the BMCC6k to 8.3.2 now works with lens IS!

Does it work when rolling?

JB

Does it work when rolling?

JB

Sadly, no.

EDIT: lens IS works with 8.3.2 firmware.

Does it work when rolling?

JB

Sadly, no.

I would raise it with tech support so it’s on the BMD agenda.

It might also be the adaptor / firmware in that too.

JB

Does it work when rolling?

JB

Sadly, no.

I would raise it with tech support so it’s on the BMD agenda.

It might also be the adaptor / firmware in that too.

JB

I just updated the BMCC6k to 8.3.2 and lens IS works now!

Hi all. This question may have already been asked, so I apologize in advance. There is no mention of new camera cages. As far as I understand, previous versions from pocket 6K are suitable, right?

Anyone else have experience with this? I'm shopping around for cages but there seem to be none except for the really expensive MID49 one?

Its not the same. I bought the tilta cage, stated it would fit the new ff in the description but it doesnt. the top screw is off by a 1/4in or so.

this is the one i bought and tested today, will return and wait for a cage.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087R ... UTF8&psc=1

I received my BMCC6K ff on Monday and found a few issues. I want to ask if anyone has any similar issues:
(I hope this is the right thread to report findings)

1. Using a relatively unknown EF-to-L mount adapter (YKEASU, purchased from Amazon), the new FF camera cannot control the iris via the iris dial.
- I already updated the latest firmware 8.3.2.
- Lens tested (cannot control iris): Tamron 24-70mm EF f/2.8; sigma 18-35mm EF f/1.8.

==> I don't know if the EF-to-L adapter causes the problem, or if BMCC6K ff has an issue controlling the iris for some EF lens.

Remarks: I can control the iris of these lenses on my URSA broadcast g2, and bmpcc4k.

2. The de-squeeze ratio is somewhat "context-sensitive". I'd rather Blackmagic provides a few more options: custom, 1.33x, 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x, 2x etc.
e.g. laowa nanomorph 27/35/50mm + super35 mode, only 1.8x de-squeeze is allowed
but using 6k open gate mode (vignette), only 1.6x de-squeeze is allowed

==> Feature request for Blackmagic product team: provide custom de-squeeze ratio!

3. lens tested - good results
- laowa nanomorph 27/35/50mm 1.5x - no vignette when using super35/4K DCI mode
- sigma 18-35mm EF - no vignette when using super35/4K DCI mode
- Irix cine lens 11/15/30/45/150mm ff - perfect
- samyang 85mm EF ff - good

4. battery consumption
- assumptions: from 2 recent separate youtube battery tests, a single NP 570 should last almost an hour when shooting in open gate mode. Even when you see the red battery warning, the battery should last for another 10+ min.
- My casual testing (different modes, many power on/off, screen brightness 10%) finds a single NP 570 3500mAh lasts about 30min before the red battery warning appears). It's much shorter than 1 hour.

===
I'm interested in any feedback or suggestions, or sharing of your test results.
thanks.

So internal battery is basically unusable?
Who would've thought..

Another quirk when using the Sigma MC-21 EF-L adapter and a manual lens: you have to press “reset lens data” or it won’t let you enter the focal length (it’s greyed-out otherwise), which is important for gyro data if you hope to correct the significant rolling shutter while shooting handheld.

… 1. Using a relatively unknown EF-to-L mount adapter (YKEASU, purchased from Amazon), the new FF camera cannot control the iris via the iris dial.
- I already updated the latest firmware 8.3.2.
- Lens tested (cannot control iris): Tamron 24-70mm EF f/2.8; sigma 18-35mm EF f/1.8...

Valuable feedback so thanks. If you can return the EF-to-L adapter, may be a good idea to purchase a more expensive adapter from a member of the L-mount consortium. Unfortunately even that may be problematic if the camera vendor such as Panasonic is relying on proprietary code in the camera to make their lenses work with their EF-to-L mount adapter.

Considering this is the early days of BMD’s experience with L-mount, they may be offering some guidance re adapters. Until then I think the consortium members or one of the more reputable equipment vendors such as MTF Services would stand behind their products.

Edit
Totally agree BMD should let the user select the desqueeze factors from the menu and stop assuming they know which factor to select.

Sigma is making their own converter for EF models to Sony E-mount, which works very well.
If they have a converter for L-mount, it should work too.

Yes. Sigma has their EF-to-L mount MC-21 adapter but they only assure you it works with Sigma lenses, not any implied guarantee with other lenses.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1463159-REG

For the PL-to-L mount MC-31 adapter there’s a significant price jump!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1549021-REG

Sure, for other lenses than Sigma we need to wait for user experiences.

Their MC-11 works for me with a Canon zoom at least.

The B&H Photo detailed overview lists all compatible EF lenses for the MC-21, but currently only lists two Panasonic cameras as compatible.

It’s going to take many months of users trying various adapters of non-L mount lenses to get any confidence in purchasing the BMCC6K. Kudos to those who are purchasing now as those who follow owe the early adopters a debt of gratitude.

_Context for EF-to-L adapters_
my earlier choice of a non-sigma EF-to-L adapter is motivated by laowa nanomorph lens. I originally purchased laowa anamorphic lens EF mount, hoping to use it on URSA broadcast G2 (EF mount), BMPCC4K (MFT), and Sony (e-mount). Unfortunately, the EF version of the 35mm (not 27mm or 50mm) anamorphic lens has a protruding rear end that is blocked by my Sigma EF-to-E adapter (not cheap). I tried Viltrox EF-to-E adapter (about the same price), and it failed miserably. So I studied all EF-to-E and EF-to-L adapters to find one that has enough space to accommodate the protruding rear lens. I don't want to risk buying Sigma adapter which does not fit laowa nanomorph 35mm or other lens.

In such a context, if I use any manual EF lens on BMCC6K (or USA broadcast G2, etc), I don't need to use the AF or iris control. It works well until I want to use a lens with no iris ring on BMCC6K.

Thanks for that additional information related to your conundrum.

i bought this one

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ns_to.html

Not sure what the "T Cine" means -
I am only using the camera with a set of Ironglass PL mounts. For some reason it crops the 20mm with some vignette and doesn't seem to fit correctly. Every other lens in the set works fine as well as the laowa 12mm.

Is their a reason they are pushing the Sigma adapters over the metabones ?

That’s the adapter I normally would have selected for my PL lenses. Sigma is a member of the L-mount consortium as is Blackmagic Design. Being a member who also makes cameras and lenses adds a lot of credence to whatever adapter they would manufacture.

Of course Metabones has a good reputation making adapters too; it’s their livelihood.

So internal battery is basically unusable?
Who would've thought..

The situation improves significantly if you use the battery grip.

I feel like the whole battery situation is why I dislike the Pocket design the most. I love the URSA cameras because you just pop on a V-Mount or Gold Mount battery. It lasts exactly how long based on the Wh, and then you pop it off and put on a fresh one. Simple and easy. The Pockets would be easy too for swapping the batteries, but…

The flaw of the DSLR design is that the battery is underneath and you have to open a door to eject the battery and put in a new one. This usually is difficult with the camera on a tripod because the door is blocked by part of the tripod set up. So then a battery grip is an alternative option. However, this adds new headaches because it adds height to the camera and you may need a different cage set up if using rails for accessories. So what about the V-Mount/Gold Mount Plates that attach to rails? They moat often block the back monitor making changing settings a pain and operation needing an external monitor to see the frame. It's not a proper video camera or cinema camera design.

That is why I'd be happy for a new design for the "Pocket" line. The same applies for the new Full Frame Cinema Camera.

At least the URSA Mini Pro is a good design.


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It is a good point in which the BMCC6K can be a challenge when you’re relying on batteries and securing a V-mount battery may affect the operation and utility of the camera. When you’re able to draw power from mains, the issue is moot, but that’s only a minority of camera operators I think.

So internal battery is basically unusable?
Who would've thought..

The situation improves significantly if you use the battery grip.

But then the form factor gets even worse.

I feel like the whole battery situation is why I dislike the Pocket design the most. I love the URSA cameras because you just pop on a V-Mount or Gold Mount battery. It lasts exactly how long based on the Wh, and then you pop it off and put on a fresh one. Simple and easy. The Pockets would be easy too for swapping the batteries, but…

The flaw of the DSLR design is that the battery is underneath and you have to open a door to eject the battery and put in a new one. This usually is difficult with the camera on a tripod because the door is blocked by part of the tripod set up. So then a battery grip is an alternative option. However, this adds new headaches because it adds height to the camera and you may need a different cage set up if using rails for accessories. So what about the V-Mount/Gold Mount Plates that attach to rails? They moat often block the back monitor making changing settings a pain and operation needing an external monitor to see the frame. It's not a proper video camera or cinema camera design.

That is why I'd be happy for a new design for the "Pocket" line. The same applies for the new Full Frame Cinema Camera.

At least the URSA Mini Pro is a good design.


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Yes thank you. This is what it ultimately keeps boiling down to for me and my biggest frustration with the Pocket line as well. If BM wont change the the actual form factor, I wish they would at least find a way to slightly redesign the back to integrate a micro V-Mount plate or change how the screen articulates so there's at least better options for mounting a v-mount without blocking the entire OS interface.

With the traditional size of v-mounts I can understand how this would be difficult but now with so many "micro" v-mount battery options I don't feel like this would be that difficult to integrate. Practically every pocket user is rigging their cameras out with v-mounts anyways so why do they keep ignoring it?

Maybe not, maybe some users want to keep a larger battery on their belt.

I've always just moved the battery back far enough to be able to use the screen. Don't really see the problem as the camera is often balanced better too in that way.

It's not cheap, but if you want a simple way to swing the battery away from the back screen there aren't a ton of better options:

https://woodencamera.com/products/battery-swing

I ever used battery plate on rod, moved back from camera and down oriented to have free access to monitor, better balance when you move camera with big lenses and when you put in shoulder.
The same with pocket or ursa.
For ursa a simple xlr power cable, for pocket a simple weipu cable.

If you not want to use vlock/ gmount, we are full of Sony plate to use larger battery like 970, last weekend I did three hours of operation with p6k with one of them, there is also the 72w version (10.500 mhp) the give you smaller space, lower cost, longer duration against classic 100w vmount


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I've always just moved the battery back far enough to be able to use the screen. Don't really see the problem

Does not work on gimbals.

I'd love to see a large poll about how owners, not just members of this forum, really perceive that form factor.
I used to defend it on here when the 4K came out, but using it for years on commercial shoots, I grew frustrated by it and powering is one major reason. My bet is more people dislike it than like it. Maybe I'm wrong.

I just hope they move on, it never was "pocket" anyways.

EDIT: or change it to Ollie Larkin's hack:

2023-06-18%252017.01.41.jpg (991.32 KiB) Viewed 15223 times

2023-06-18%252017.02.09.jpg (997.28 KiB) Viewed 15223 times

The pockets were never really the successor to the original pocket. They were really successors to the first cinema camera. I think that’s whey they’ve gone back to that name now and dropped pocket.

The form factor is great unless you want to “rig” it.

Personally I then just use a different camera and prefer to shoot it naked, with no batteries or monitors or gack added on. Imagine that.

I often feel like I’m the only person who shoots these cameras this way.

Just depends what you’re doing but I think the disappointment in the form factor comes from trying to make a small camera do a bigger job.

I mean yeah you could write a novel with an iPhone, but wouldn’t you prefer a laptop or desktop?

https://flic.kr/p/2mcXGRU

JB

Personally I then just use a different camera and prefer to shoot it naked, with no batteries or monitors or gack added on. Imagine that.

As I argued with you before, that is maybe ok for some B-roll but not workable when this is your A camera. Many users buy these cameras as their main cam and don't use it like you do.

Just depends what you’re doing but I think the disappointment in the form factor comes from trying to make a small camera do a bigger job.

They always marketed them as cinema cameras, not 'small cameras for small jobs'. It's even in the names. I also don't read that much disappointment about the form factor with even smaller cameras like the Sony FX3 ect.

The pockets were never really the successor to the original pocket. They were really successors to the first cinema camera. I think that’s whey they’ve gone back to that name now and dropped pocket.

The form factor is great unless you want to “rig” it.

Personally I then just use a different camera and prefer to shoot it naked, with no batteries or monitors or gack added on. Imagine that.

I often feel like I’m the only person who shoots these cameras this way.

Just depends what you’re doing but I think the disappointment in the form factor comes from trying to make a small camera do a bigger job.

I mean yeah you could write a novel with an iPhone, but wouldn’t you prefer a laptop or desktop?

https://flic.kr/p/2mcXGRU

JB

Agreed. I like the idea of shooting with it stripped down to body, EVF, and the Battery Grip. I've done that for good results. Sadly the new FF doesn't have internal ND so it makes having to screw ND on to the lens a main way of controlling light for wider apertures.

I do wish the battery life was a bit better. At least with the Sony A7IV I get 2hrs per battery when shooting video. So with a battery grip I get an extra battery and get 4 hours. The Battery Grip for the Pocket/CC6K gives three batteries for around 3hrs of life. Still that Battery Grip I found is a little funky for balancing with heavier lenses like the Sigma 50-100. I got a lot of wobble at the base on a tripod with that lens. But smaller lenses seem to be fine.

I'd be curious to see where Blackmagic goes now with the L Mount. May lead to further innovation on the body for the camera, which would be great.

As I argued with you before, that is maybe ok for some B-roll but not workable when this is your A camera. Many users buy these cameras as their main cam and don't use it like you do.

I know. I’m using the camera as intended. I understand others want to rig it into an A camera. But the complaints about it then become moot a bit in my view. There are other cameras that do that job better.

Just depends what you’re doing but I think the disappointment in the form factor comes from trying to make a small camera do a bigger job.

They always marketed them as cinema cameras, not 'small cameras for small jobs'. It's even in the names. I also don't read that much disappointment about the form factor with even smaller cameras like the Sony FX3 ect.

I’m not talking about small cameras for small jobs. I use these cameras all the time on big jobs. I just am not trying to turn them into an A camera. I use them for what they’re good at doing. A small self contained high bit depth agile camera.

I don’t think there are as many people trying to rig out an FX3 to be an A camera.

The issues are somewhat fundamental to choices BMD are making. For example battery.

Battery is probably the biggest complaint. The biggest driver of a need to “rig” the camera up to get longer endurance. Less need to do that with an FX3 right? So therefore you’re not forced to rig and cage it.

Sony internals are based on ASIC chips. Very low power consumption. BMD use FPGA internals and they consume a LOT more power.

There are reasons I can go into as to why BMD make that choice, but basically the underlying electronics will always draw more power and leave the camera with this battery “problem”.

SO it’s not an easy problem to fix. You need a bigger battery because the camera draws more power. (Also add in a 5” HDR screen) Designing around a bigger batter means a much bigger camera. Basically an URSA Mini. That’s the underlying choices driving the size. That’s the trade off.

SSD. I don’t see anyone trying to use SSD on the FX 3. Another fragile thing that forces you to rig. But so many people WANT that even though the internal media is safer.

On an FX 3 it’s also forcing you to go off board for raw. Part of the acceptance of the buy-in proposition. You KNOW you have to go to external and rigging if you WANT raw.. But i think most buy an FX3 happy to use it’s inferior internal recording codecs.

JB
*edit. I’ll add I really like the FX3. I used it a few times on an Apple+ show I did recently and it did what it was designed to do. The AF is great and the even smaller size was perfect for what we needed. I wouldn’t want to use it as an A camera though.

I don’t think there are as many people trying to rig out an FX3 to be an A camera..

A fully rigged FX3 was the A-cam on "The Creator", prepped by Craig Fraser and later shot by Oren Soffer as Fraser had to go and shoot Dune 2.

FX, Lumix, Canon mirrorless ect, I think many many people rig them, and with all these cams it's easier than with the Pocket line.

These cameras are all good enough for cinema, the Pocket line even has it in his name. They need to be able to be rigged properly.

I don't understand why you consider Pockets not good enough for A-cameras and thus don't need to be able to be rigged at all.

A selection of shots taken with the BMCC6K FF during a recent hike in the French Alps. Shoot by French/Australian filmmaker and photographer Florent Piovesan (Of Two Lands).

Shot Open Gate, BRAW 12:1, in 24 and 36 fps
All handheld
Lenses used: Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 L USM II, and Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM
NISI VND
Graded with FilmConvert

A fully rigged FX3 was the A-cam on "The Creator", prepped by Craig Fraser and later shot by Oren Soffer as Fraser had to go and shoot Dune 2.

I literally cannot wait for the day when folks will stop invoking The Creator. Scenarios like this are the exception and not the rule for very good reasons. Speaking as someone who spent a lot of time with FX3s in a professional Tier A capacity this year, they lack a substantial number of important features that are a pain in the ass to work around. You can use an FX3 as an A-Cam in that context in the same way that you can win the 100m dash at the Olympics without wearing shoes; it's not impossible but why would you put yourself through that?

That wasn't my point. Almost everyone buying an FX3 is using it as an A-cam, rigging it. It's an entry level cinema camera, like the Pockets. I just find it strange to pretend they are not, and that no-one needs to rig them because they're not meant to be rigged. I know three (EDIT: four) companies/people who own Pockets and they all rig them because they need to run the whole day.

Sorry that you can't hear The Creator example anymore.

I don’t think there are as many people trying to rig out an FX3 to be an A camera..

A fully rigged FX3 was the A-cam on "The Creator", prepped by Craig Fraser and later shot by Oren Soffer as Fraser had to go and shoot Dune 2.

Do you know WHY they went for the FX3 though? They had a really specific reason to do so. Rather than calling out that they used it, can you detail the WHY? Because most people can’t. They just think they randomly decided to use it.

I don't understand why you consider Pockets not good enough for A-cameras and thus don't need to be able to be rigged at all.

You COULD use them as an A camera, but the question is why SHOULD you use them as an A camera?

Like I said earlier. I could write a novel on an iPhone, but I’d rather use a desktop. But you’re saying use an iPhone and get a blue tooth keyboard and an external screen.

JB

John, you once stated the Pockets are the most sold BMD cameras. Do you think they're all used as B-cameras?

Personally I only know people who use it as their A-cam. These are not big budget people, they don't shoot big shows and movies like you do. These are the supposed target group for an affordable cinema camera. They use them as their A-cam. They need to rig out for that and none of them is happy with the form factor, for various reasons.

I'll not hijack this thread anymore on form factor discussion, I guess I made my point, some may agree and others won't.

The pockets were never really the successor to the original pocket. They were really successors to the first cinema camera. I think that’s whey they’ve gone back to that name now and dropped pocket.

JB

Yes, none of the Pocket cameras has "Pocket" written on the case. The new BMCC6K is a "camera formerly known as Pocket"

My Pocket 6k LF arrived yesterday after a mix up caused a 3 days delay by the courier. Looks like others have already discover bugs but cant say I'm surprised, its happened to all Blackmagic cameras when they first come out and needed firmware fixes.

Well, I gave in.
Just got a CC6k today.
Really like the image and seeing my full frame lenses in all their glory.
3:2 is fun, but how often will you shoot a project with it?
I’ll try to cut some footage together soon!

I received the Bmcc6k today and after a quick test I was kinda shocked at what I saw.

There is an extreme case of horizontal streaking throughout the image (in a dark setting). It reacts to how light hits the lens and changes/flickers drastically. It's mostly noticable from ISO 200 - 1000. From 1250 its a lot cleaner but it's still there, and gets worse above 1600 and up. Its very obvious in log, but even with a lut its definitely there and noticable.
I already found a reddit post about this where someone had the same issue, although not as bad as what I saw on my camera. Blackmagic did respond that it was "excessive" and it's probably a faulty sensor.
Now I did find a video explaining that this can happen with cmos sensors, and its specifically about this panasonic sensor (I assume), but also showed examples of other cameras including Sony fx3 (although that cleanes up nicely over a certain ISO). Video is called; "THE PROBLEM with GH6 and why I didn’t review it" on youtube by The DP Journey.


I exported a short test as an example: (vimeo) /881070365?share=copy

Yes I know it is dark and that sensors need light. I know all about it. But Ive worked with many cameras and never seen anything as extreme as this. online compression shows it but not to the full extent. This is log.. but even in 709 its noticable and therefor unusable. I will send this back and will try another camera which hopefully will be better. But I'm afraid this sensor will always have this problem. I guess I'll find out.
If anyone experiences this before, any info is welcome.

Greetings!

Well congratulations to you on your purchases. Having more screen just makes for more choices in ways to deliver 4K for example. Oversampling allows you to reframe and downscale for a better image. Who knows, maybe the aspect ratio will become popular over time?

3:2 are the default ratio for FF photography. I can see open gate being useful for architecture especially with tilt shift lens. It may find use in scientific and teaching videos were viewers are not looking for a story.

True, and given that it could well become commonplace. Perhaps someday one of the major television manufacturers will support it as an option (if they don’t already) and that could be the tipping point.

True, and given that it could well become commonplace. Perhaps someday one of the major television manufacturers will support it as an option (if they don’t already) and that could be the tipping point.

Probably not television. Phones having been driving changes on Tik Tok videos and BMD even adopted the phone cam ratio on their Pocket cameras. Unless future mobile devices uses 3:2 and become popular.

This guy compares the FF and the regular 6k. Slightly disappointing as they seem to perform exactly the same? No way that's possible, right?

Very interesting.

- identical color (good)
- identical dynamic range (hm)
- worse noise on the FF (not good)

He concludes the advantages left over the Pocket 6K are
- FF shallow DoF (if you like that)
- Open Gate
- L-Mount

and vs G2, brighter screen.

EDIT: Personally I'd add OLPF although I rarely ran into problems with the Pockets (except constant IR pollution).