"Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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vgs2003

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"Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 2:49 pm

As a reseller, we sold recently plenty of Blackmagic 4K cameras and found out, that a couple of them got a "used look" directly from the factory sealed package. Are there any other users who can confirm that?

It would be nice if someone from Blackmagic would let us know how that could happen, because we have an upset customer now telling us that we sold a used camera (see pictures).
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Chris Mo

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 3:40 pm

@vgs2003

Yes, when I got my "new" Pocket it had some marks on the edge of the body (like your first picture), but not as bad as in your pictures. I thought it was the body rubbing against the plastic packaging it is sitting in/on due to usual rough treatment by the shipping company.
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JoeyL

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 4:10 pm

Oof, I'm supposed to be getting a new one delivered from Adorama today. I would definitely question if that is "new".
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rick.lang

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 6:07 pm

Those marks appear to go well beyond a surface scuff. Looks like abrasions. My URSA MINI 4.6K has been through a lot in over three years and looks new in any of those areas. I’d be disappointed too.


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MikeMeagher

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 7:03 pm

The first BMPCC4K I recieved shrink wrapped from Adorama was indeed used. Scuffs, dings, and grime. Missing items in the box. Even corrosion on one small screw head. It was sent back. My 2nd camera recieved from BandH had some grime and residue on the body. Not pristine but i cleaned it up like new. It was as if the factory worker doing the packaging had dirty hands.
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rick.lang

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 7:50 pm

Good point, MIke. I’ve had dirt that may not be pretty, but not a serious issue. Not abrasions that gouged the surface and even affected the BMD logo.


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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 7:50 pm

Mine NIB shrink wrapped from Adorama has almost the exact same markings in the 3 spots, and then on the bottom right corner. I hadn't realized it was made from plastic. All 4 areas of markings on my camera are on that back piece/bezzle around the screen. It honestly just seems like sloppy manufacturing process to me and not that it's already been used/brazed.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 1:47 am

The body is actually a carbon fiber composite material. It scuffs easier when warm during the manufacturing process. So this looks like yet another QC issue.
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rick.lang

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 5:16 am

Could be. That third photo with the gouge could have happened when it was soft but why the damage to the logo?


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vgs2003

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 6:29 am

@Australian Image:

Yes, as mentioned in the first post, we got them factory sealed from the official Blackmagic distributor in our country.

And here is another example of a camera we just removed from a sealed box. It looks nearly the same, this time the pictures are from us. The ones in the first post are directly from our customer.

To let you all know, the total of affected cameras are low as 5% from our recent sales, but the problem is there. We only don't want to get blamed for selling used cameras, which our customer accused us for now, so a official statement would be helpful. We already offered a discount, exchange or a complete return refund.
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vgs2003

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 7:22 am

@Australian Image:

When did you get your camera? As Blackmagic changed the hardware (diplay screen) or maybe other details since last september there is always a change in other procedures of a manufacturing and packing process. The new hardware revision 6.2.1 cameras are also delivered inside in a hard plastic shell now and not in that thick paper shell like before. As a reseller we probably seen more changes in the packaging than a regular customer through that time. And speaking of the protective screen, most of the brand new BMPCC4K's we got our hands on (and these were lots) aren't matching the screen at all like the one on the photos. I just made another photo directly from it. I guess lots of other people could confirm that either. I think even on YouTube you can see that in lots of unboxing videos. We need to come back to the real topic that the outer camera shell got marks from somewhere, not caused from using the camera, but maybe from a manufacturing issue.
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vgs2003

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 8:20 am

@Australian Image

Yes, your experience with just one camera from last year, which doesn't reflect our own current experience with 5% of our sold BMPCC4K stock. But, thanks for your thoughts.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 8:48 am

I can confirm that the screen protectors can look exactly like that when opened.

Yes the hard paper cover was changed to plastic and i think it's becouse the paper one was often broken in box during shipment which resulted in "mess" inside. It looked like the insides were left open in dusty area. Everything was covered in paper dust. In Plastic you don't have such thing.

I never seen one camera looking like what you sent out of the box. The only scratch on pocket i seen was done by client trying to screw long magic arm into Smallrig cage and went so far that it scratched upper body part.
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Tommaso Alvisi

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 10:09 am

maybe these were refurbs instead re-inserted in the main sales channel????
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Richard Wait

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 10:34 am

Mine (a UK sourced one from an official supplier) was also marked out of the box.

I was initially shocked how rubbish the packing is (compared to my Lumix cameras of past).

The cameras need to be at least wrapped in a soft bag or something.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 11:37 am

Tommaso Alvisi wrote:maybe these were refurbs instead re-inserted in the main sales channel????


If the marks were from something like that you would expect them to be more widely varied.

If essentially the same marks are showing up consistently across multiple cameras that suggests a more systematic issue such as a manufacturing or packaging problem.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 5:29 pm

I experienced the same thing. The scuff marks on the body was consistent with the scuff marks on the, what I expect to be, vacuum formed packaging material. A simple foam or cloth bag would have avoided this I suppose.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 9:24 pm

Are there any factory seconds being sold in retail as firsts?

Just because something is shrink wrapped, doesn't mean it hasn't been opened and rewrapped.

Sometimes in retail items, things are returned/repaired and resold.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostFri May 24, 2019 9:53 pm

Factory seconds could be a plausible answer. However I really hope that's not the case since it would be sinister to sneak that in and sell them without some form of compensation or price reduction.

I would guess that most of the scratches on my camera was caused during shipment. There are matching marks on the packing material and on the camera body. There were a few rubber stickies on the packing material that maybe was intended to act as bumpers but they were not placed in the scratched up areas so I'm not sure how much good they did or of it would have been even worse without them.

My reseller has not been very helpful in this matter. I think the only way is to contact BMD directly. Maybe they can narrow this down to specific batches.

The camera seems to be working fine though! So I really hope this is purely cosmetical.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat May 25, 2019 4:54 am

If you are dealing with a free market of little cheap sellers, things can happen, but I like your explanation Daniel.

Maybe people could examine how deep the marks go. If your packaging they might mainly be surface build up. But see the following warning:

Warning: Guys, don't attempt to clean these off unless you know what you are doing, otherwise you could mar, or rub into or destabilise the surface for real.

We should ask BM to come here and give a guide to cleaning each different finish on the camera (different materials can be safely cleanned in different ways). Also a guide to refurbishing actual scatches etc. There are maybe yens of thousands of different chemical formula's for plastic, and many for rubber like materials, and others for powered coatings, with many different ways to treat it while avoiding harming whatever particular surface you are working on. The 'engineering chain' respobsible gir the materials might know, and this would allows users to spruce the camera up every few years, and deal with more nasty stuff (at least service centers could). I've got some coating system here I got from a $5 store, that I want to try in a bench top for refurbishment and hardening protection. I'd be interested if I could apply that as a one off wigjot it fouling the camera surface, melting parts of the surface, or flaking off within ten years from stretching twisting on hard surfaces let alone rubber like grips.

I still think a silicone/carbon water proof fiber glove skin would be a great thing to have. As some of your who follow me know, I have a number of nice design ideas for slim lined cages, battery accessories and cases, all with mount points for light equipment. These are the things that excite me. I can say a pocket mini like case styling with mount points would be LEGENDARY, and in the rich camera, put Arri to shame on set for smaller size use. I'm deep into other stuff at the moment, but I'm well interested I'm sharing to see commercial products developed on a profit share basis. I've got important things lined up, and might be approaching a local group to do a simple mobile app enterprise, so this thousands of sales territory is not a priority to do myself, and was thinking of approaching accessories companies of the sort of redrock micro one day. There are many products like this in camera accessories to do.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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Alex Delfont

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostFri Jul 26, 2019 9:01 pm

vgs2003 wrote:As a reseller, we sold recently plenty of Blackmagic 4K cameras and found out, that a couple of them got a "used look" directly from the factory sealed package. Are there any other users who can confirm that?

It would be nice if someone from Blackmagic would let us know how that could happen, because we have an upset customer now telling us that we sold a used camera (see pictures).


Hi

Did you get to the bottom of this? I've just received mine after 4 months of waiting and it has very similar marks, and I dont know what to do. I can't send it back after such a wait when there aren't more available, but if I was to sell this down the line I'd lose money for these marks. I just sold my G80 after 2 years and it doesn't have a mark on it!
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Jul 27, 2019 3:04 pm

Alex Delfont wrote:...

Hi

Did you get to the bottom of this? I've just received mine after 4 months of waiting and it has very similar marks, and I dont know what to do. I can't send it back after such a wait when there aren't more available, but if I was to sell this down the line I'd lose money for these marks. I just sold my G80 after 2 years and it doesn't have a mark on it!


Did you contact Blackmagic support and ask is this is what a new unit looks like? I'm personally pretty picky about stuff like this and would insist on an immediate exchange if the unit in fact isn't brand new. At least get an explanation.

I remember getting my BMPCC in 2013 and being impressed with the packaging and the fact BMD were trying to be like Apple in that regard.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
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Alex Delfont

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Jul 27, 2019 3:14 pm

Steve Holmlund wrote:
Alex Delfont wrote:...

Hi

Did you get to the bottom of this? I've just received mine after 4 months of waiting and it has very similar marks, and I dont know what to do. I can't send it back after such a wait when there aren't more available, but if I was to sell this down the line I'd lose money for these marks. I just sold my G80 after 2 years and it doesn't have a mark on it!


Did you contact Blackmagic support and ask is this is what a new unit looks like? I'm personally pretty picky about stuff like this and would insist on an immediate exchange if the unit in fact isn't brand new. At least get an explanation.

I remember getting my BMPCC in 2013 and being impressed with the packaging and the fact BMD were trying to be like Apple in that regard.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
Steve


Hey, no I havent. I will contact the shop I bought it from on Monday. But I've been waiting for this for about 4 months! And they rarely get any in, the wait is long in England, so I'm very reluctant to send it anywhere!

I really doubt its used, why would it be? I think like someone else mentioned, it seems to be the packaging. I noticed the plastic that contains it was also kind of messy in the same places and maybe not firm enough or soft enough, and it has just rubbed and made marks.

I dont mind the marks, but I dont want to lose money if I ever sell it because of them. I've kept all my other gear in mint condition.

Thanks
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Jul 27, 2019 5:31 pm

Alex, with everything kept in mint condition, we understand your concerns. But by the time you want to sell this camera, it may not matter five to ten years from now to the next owner, assuming it is still in good working order. Might not cost you anything when you resell. Sending the camera back and waiting again costs something now.

You may grow so fond of it, you keep it for life. Instead of the thread where people post their current rigs, we should have a thread where we post the row of cameras no longer used but kept anyway. I’ve never resold any of my cameras.


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PostSun Jul 28, 2019 11:40 am

rick.lang wrote:Alex, with everything kept in mint condition, we understand your concerns. But by the time you want to sell this camera, it may not matter five to ten years from now to the next owner, assuming it is still in good working order. Might not cost you anything when you resell. Sending the camera back and waiting again costs something now.

You may grow so fond of it, you keep it for life. Instead of the thread where people post their current rigs, we should have a thread where we post the row of cameras no longer used but kept anyway. I’ve never resold any of my cameras.


I don't mind a few dings here and there if I did it myself or its used. But to get a brand new camera out of of the box and see marks all over it is not really ok. Even if this was being sold on eBay used I'd expect them to mention the marks and show photos.

But still, I can't bring myself to send it back, hopefully the shop or Blackmagic will do something like offer a bit of a discount, as it doesn't look right at all
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Jul 28, 2019 6:16 pm

My guess this is just a cheap attempt to copy this:

http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_de/lei ... 319-1.html
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Aug 05, 2019 8:44 pm

I received mine today with multiple scuff, rub and scratch marks from Adorama. The box had plastic wrap on it and it appears new otherwise. I have requested an exchange from Adorama and have also opened up a case with BM support. They have asked me for the serial number and I have sent them pictures of the marks.

I am awaiting a response from their support department. Not sure what is going on here, but even if it's a quality control issue, it certainly makes for a bad impression for someone's first experience with their cameras.

Not a happy camper!
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Aug 05, 2019 9:25 pm

Ajay00 wrote:I received mine today with multiple scuff, rub and scratch marks from Adorama. The box had plastic wrap on it and it appears new otherwise. I have requested an exchange from Adorama and have also opened up a case with BM support. They have asked me for the serial number and I have sent them pictures of the marks.

I am awaiting a response from their support department. Not sure what is going on here, but even if it's a quality control issue, it certainly makes for a bad impression for someone's first experience with their cameras.

Not a happy camper!


Yeah same happened to me. I bought mine from a UK shop. It seems certainly like a packaging issue, as the marks are all in the same place as the OP's ones, and I could see where the packaging was rubbing. Its crazy to use such bad packaging for a camera.

I called Blackmagic in the UK and they were very helpful. They had it picked up by courier the next day, and its with them now. Apparently I should have a new one within a week. They keep stock for returns like this, and they acknowledged that there was a batch that had issues with the packaging.

So yeah, its not a great first impression, but they have had better customer service than most companies. Its better than dealing with hug companies! And the few shots I got before sending it back looked great :)
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rick.lang

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Aug 06, 2019 1:16 am

I can understand some poor production handling or package design for the first production shipment but not a year later!?


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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed Aug 07, 2019 7:30 pm

Ajay00 wrote:I received mine today with multiple scuff, rub and scratch marks from Adorama. The box had plastic wrap on it and it appears new otherwise. I have requested an exchange from Adorama and have also opened up a case with BM support. They have asked me for the serial number...!


I wonder if Adorama shipped to you the same beat up and used camera which I received from Adorama and promptly returned to them... my shrink wrapped camera received was dirty sandy salty and even corroded in some areas. And the box had 2 copies of DR studio in the box! So very odd. My 2nd camera from BandH had only the typical packaging scuff marks and some fingerprints. I cleaned it up.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed Aug 07, 2019 8:19 pm

I just got my return from Blackmagic in the UK. It took about 4 working days from when I sent it back, they were really helpful. So I'm happy, these things happen.

The new one seems perfect, no marks or scuffs :)
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostFri Aug 16, 2019 2:54 am

I really don't think this is an Adorama issue. The same exact complaints are happening with the 6k camera. There are numerous complaints on FB and Twitter regarding scratched and dinged cases on the new Pocket 6k. Someone got a 6k from B&H full of marks/scratches.

This is totally unprofessional on Black Magic's part. They certainly know of the problem but are not admitting it. There tech support group seemed totally oblivious to this happening even though I know others have also complained to them. I am currently awaiting a replacement but I'm am very close to just cancelling my order. This should not be happening and they should be held accountable for what they are doing.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Aug 17, 2019 2:09 pm

Somebody mentioned 100k sales on a thread. That would have likely been a lot more than BM planned, so they might have sourced additional manufacture.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Aug 18, 2019 11:50 pm

I received my 6K from Adorama last Monday and it had signs of wear as well. I contacted my sales agent and informed him, he didn't think it was possible as the camera was new and sealed. This confirms that It's a real scenario.

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Aug 19, 2019 5:26 am

First world problems...

Get a grip guys -that marks are from the plastic tray rubbing at the camera while in transport, and they come off easily, if you are not into that"battled look".
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Aug 19, 2019 10:32 pm

Easy, enough, find out his to remove safely, and people try to remove it. But how does the salt stuff/corrosion fit into this?

Frank how did you safely remove yours?
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Daniel Tufvesson

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 6:33 pm

I'm pretty sure the marks on my camera won't rub off. Basically the matte outer surface of the camera body has been polished shiny after rubbing against something (in my case most likely the plastic trays in the box). Enough to actually create visible dents on the surface so it's definitely not build-up of any kind.

It's just the way it is. Camera is meant to be used after all. As long as it operates properly I can live with it. It's just a little sad to open up the box to find your brand new toy roughed up :roll:

I rarely ever re-sell any gear but for people with that in mind I can see this being a potential issue.
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 6:39 pm

Yeah the marks I had would have made re-sale an issue, and I would be unlikely to make marks as bad as that in a year or more of use.

But for anyone complaining just talk to Blackmagic. They replaced mine in a few days
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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed Aug 21, 2019 5:20 am

Ordered the 6k within an hour of announcement & the only scuff mine had was a couple mm long on top corner edge near the 6k on the front. BMD should definitely pack em better with foam etc for shipping. Mine only had one small mark which I lightly rubbed my thumb over the one small scuff till it decreased the light abrasion a bit. I did NOT use cleaning solution etc on it.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed Aug 21, 2019 11:45 am

See BMD's response here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97129#p539280
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Wayne Steven

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Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed Aug 21, 2019 2:31 pm

Good stuff. Thanks.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.

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