"Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

vgs2003

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:06 pm
  • Real Name: Werner Kendler

"Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 2:49 pm

As a reseller, we sold recently plenty of Blackmagic 4K cameras and found out, that a couple of them got a "used look" directly from the factory sealed package. Are there any other users who can confirm that?

It would be nice if someone from Blackmagic would let us know how that could happen, because we have an upset customer now telling us that we sold a used camera (see pictures).
Attachments
3.jpg
3.jpg (139.66 KiB) Viewed 2271 times
2.jpg
2.jpg (139.78 KiB) Viewed 2271 times
1.jpg
1.jpg (161.58 KiB) Viewed 2271 times
Offline

Chris Mo

  • Posts: 36
  • Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 3:40 pm

@vgs2003

Yes, when I got my "new" Pocket it had some marks on the edge of the body (like your first picture), but not as bad as in your pictures. I thought it was the body rubbing against the plastic packaging it is sitting in/on due to usual rough treatment by the shipping company.
Offline

JoeyL

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:33 pm

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 4:10 pm

Oof, I'm supposed to be getting a new one delivered from Adorama today. I would definitely question if that is "new".
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 10712
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 6:07 pm

Those marks appear to go well beyond a surface scuff. Looks like abrasions. My URSA MINI 4.6K has been through a lot in over three years and looks new in any of those areas. I’d be disappointed too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

MikeMeagher

  • Posts: 160
  • Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:21 pm
  • Location: Bellingham, WA. USA

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 7:03 pm

The first BMPCC4K I recieved shrink wrapped from Adorama was indeed used. Scuffs, dings, and grime. Missing items in the box. Even corrosion on one small screw head. It was sent back. My 2nd camera recieved from BandH had some grime and residue on the body. Not pristine but i cleaned it up like new. It was as if the factory worker doing the packaging had dirty hands.
Mike Meagher Underwater Cinematographer
Win10 64 pro I7 6core X99 mboard 64 GB
M.2 sys drive. 2x SSDs Raid0 cache.
3x 7200 HHDs raid0 storage
Two EVGA1080 TI video cards
Decklink MiniMonitor 4K BENQ WS271
Resolve 15.3 studio
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 10712
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 7:50 pm

Good point, MIke. I’ve had dirt that may not be pretty, but not a serious issue. Not abrasions that gouged the surface and even affected the BMD logo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline

JoeyL

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:33 pm

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostWed May 22, 2019 7:50 pm

Mine NIB shrink wrapped from Adorama has almost the exact same markings in the 3 spots, and then on the bottom right corner. I hadn't realized it was made from plastic. All 4 areas of markings on my camera are on that back piece/bezzle around the screen. It honestly just seems like sloppy manufacturing process to me and not that it's already been used/brazed.
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 10694
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 1:47 am

The body is actually a carbon fiber composite material. It scuffs easier when warm during the manufacturing process. So this looks like yet another QC issue.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 10712
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 5:16 am

Could be. That third photo with the gouge could have happened when it was soft but why the damage to the logo?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Australian Image

  • Posts: 1901
  • Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:08 am
  • Real Name: Ray Pollanen

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 5:27 am

That really looks like it's been out of the box at least once. The protective sheet over the screen appears to have been removed and poorly replaced (I vaguely remember that the tag was on the bottom of the screen and not the top). Are you certain that the camera has come from the actual country distributor?

I've had mine since Oct last year and there's only one mark on the body, which was caused by metal rubbing against the spot. The body simply does not mark all that easily, certainly not while inside the packaging.

I might just add that I've heard that it's quite typical in the US of returns circulating amongst resellers when customers make returns. When stores have a 'no questions asked' return policy, there's no incentive for customers to take care of purchases.
https://australianimage.com.au/
Offline

vgs2003

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:06 pm
  • Real Name: Werner Kendler

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 6:29 am

@Australian Image:

Yes, as mentioned in the first post, we got them factory sealed from the official Blackmagic distributor in our country.

And here is another example of a camera we just removed from a sealed box. It looks nearly the same, this time the pictures are from us. The ones in the first post are directly from our customer.

To let you all know, the total of affected cameras are low as 5% from our recent sales, but the problem is there. We only don't want to get blamed for selling used cameras, which our customer accused us for now, so a official statement would be helpful. We already offered a discount, exchange or a complete return refund.
Attachments
1.jpg
1.jpg (589.6 KiB) Viewed 1949 times
2.jpg
2.jpg (478.73 KiB) Viewed 1949 times
3.jpg
3.jpg (416.82 KiB) Viewed 1949 times
Offline
User avatar

Australian Image

  • Posts: 1901
  • Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:08 am
  • Real Name: Ray Pollanen

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 6:39 am

Something is very wrong here. The protective screen with a new camera is form-fitting ie it conforms to the shape of the LCD screen. That protective screen doesn't match the screen in any shape or form (the third image is a classic). Every product that I've ever bought that has a protective screen is form-fitting and doesn't just peel off in transport.
https://australianimage.com.au/
Offline

vgs2003

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:06 pm
  • Real Name: Werner Kendler

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 7:22 am

@Australian Image:

When did you get your camera? As Blackmagic changed the hardware (diplay screen) or maybe other details since last september there is always a change in other procedures of a manufacturing and packing process. The new hardware revision 6.2.1 cameras are also delivered inside in a hard plastic shell now and not in that thick paper shell like before. As a reseller we probably seen more changes in the packaging than a regular customer through that time. And speaking of the protective screen, most of the brand new BMPCC4K's we got our hands on (and these were lots) aren't matching the screen at all like the one on the photos. I just made another photo directly from it. I guess lots of other people could confirm that either. I think even on YouTube you can see that in lots of unboxing videos. We need to come back to the real topic that the outer camera shell got marks from somewhere, not caused from using the camera, but maybe from a manufacturing issue.
Attachments
SAM_0068.jpg
SAM_0068.jpg (849.48 KiB) Viewed 1925 times
Offline
User avatar

Australian Image

  • Posts: 1901
  • Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:08 am
  • Real Name: Ray Pollanen

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 7:27 am

I received mine in Oct 2018, one of the early batches. I don't know who is your supplier, but these surely cannot be new cameras from the factory. This would be reported all over the internet by now, even just that screen protector would draw a lot of criticism.
https://australianimage.com.au/
Offline

vgs2003

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:06 pm
  • Real Name: Werner Kendler

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 8:20 am

@Australian Image

Yes, your experience with just one camera from last year, which doesn't reflect our own current experience with 5% of our sold BMPCC4K stock. But, thanks for your thoughts.
Offline

Deliard

  • Posts: 28
  • Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:01 am
  • Real Name: Piotr Szewczak

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 8:48 am

I can confirm that the screen protectors can look exactly like that when opened.

Yes the hard paper cover was changed to plastic and i think it's becouse the paper one was often broken in box during shipment which resulted in "mess" inside. It looked like the insides were left open in dusty area. Everything was covered in paper dust. In Plastic you don't have such thing.

I never seen one camera looking like what you sent out of the box. The only scratch on pocket i seen was done by client trying to screw long magic arm into Smallrig cage and went so far that it scratched upper body part.
Offline
User avatar

Australian Image

  • Posts: 1901
  • Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:08 am
  • Real Name: Ray Pollanen

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 9:27 am

OK, I take it back. I had a look at a video from about six months ago and everything came out of the box just like mine. Then I had a look at one from a week ago and it had that crappy looking plastic protector.

Every product that I've ever bought that has an LCD screen has had a professionally fitted screen protector, even my $20 audio recorder had a form-fitting protector (front and back). My two Feelworld monitors have the same and I even use them as screen protectors (not having removed them).

Why would Blackmagic go for something so utterly unprofessional, cheap and crappy looking?
https://australianimage.com.au/
Offline
User avatar

Tommaso Alvisi

  • Posts: 141
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:53 am
  • Location: ITALY

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 10:09 am

maybe these were refurbs instead re-inserted in the main sales channel????
Offline
User avatar

Richard Wait

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:33 pm
  • Real Name: Richard Wait

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 10:34 am

Mine (a UK sourced one from an official supplier) was also marked out of the box.

I was initially shocked how rubbish the packing is (compared to my Lumix cameras of past).

The cameras need to be at least wrapped in a soft bag or something.
Regards

Richard
Underwater BMPCC4K Videographer
Offline

Frank Engel

  • Posts: 127
  • Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 11:09 pm
  • Real Name: Frank Engel

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 11:37 am

Tommaso Alvisi wrote:maybe these were refurbs instead re-inserted in the main sales channel????


If the marks were from something like that you would expect them to be more widely varied.

If essentially the same marks are showing up consistently across multiple cameras that suggests a more systematic issue such as a manufacturing or packaging problem.
Offline

Daniel Tufvesson

  • Posts: 137
  • Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:03 am
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 5:29 pm

I experienced the same thing. The scuff marks on the body was consistent with the scuff marks on the, what I expect to be, vacuum formed packaging material. A simple foam or cloth bag would have avoided this I suppose.
Shoot - BMCC | BMPCC | BMPCC4K | BMVA
Edit - Debian Linux 9 | Resolve Studio 15.3.1 | i7-3930K CPU | X79 MB | 32GB RAM | GTX1080 GPU | Decklink SDI
danieltufvesson.com/makeresolvedeb
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1835
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am
  • Location: Earth

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostThu May 23, 2019 9:24 pm

Are there any factory seconds being sold in retail as firsts?

Just because something is shrink wrapped, doesn't mean it hasn't been opened and rewrapped.

Sometimes in retail items, things are returned/repaired and resold.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
Offline

Daniel Tufvesson

  • Posts: 137
  • Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:03 am
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostFri May 24, 2019 9:53 pm

Factory seconds could be a plausible answer. However I really hope that's not the case since it would be sinister to sneak that in and sell them without some form of compensation or price reduction.

I would guess that most of the scratches on my camera was caused during shipment. There are matching marks on the packing material and on the camera body. There were a few rubber stickies on the packing material that maybe was intended to act as bumpers but they were not placed in the scratched up areas so I'm not sure how much good they did or of it would have been even worse without them.

My reseller has not been very helpful in this matter. I think the only way is to contact BMD directly. Maybe they can narrow this down to specific batches.

The camera seems to be working fine though! So I really hope this is purely cosmetical.
Shoot - BMCC | BMPCC | BMPCC4K | BMVA
Edit - Debian Linux 9 | Resolve Studio 15.3.1 | i7-3930K CPU | X79 MB | 32GB RAM | GTX1080 GPU | Decklink SDI
danieltufvesson.com/makeresolvedeb
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1835
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am
  • Location: Earth

Re: "Used look" from brand new BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat May 25, 2019 4:54 am

If you are dealing with a free market of little cheap sellers, things can happen, but I like your explanation Daniel.

Maybe people could examine how deep the marks go. If your packaging they might mainly be surface build up. But see the following warning:

Warning: Guys, don't attempt to clean these off unless you know what you are doing, otherwise you could mar, or rub into or destabilise the surface for real.

We should ask BM to come here and give a guide to cleaning each different finish on the camera (different materials can be safely cleanned in different ways). Also a guide to refurbishing actual scatches etc. There are maybe yens of thousands of different chemical formula's for plastic, and many for rubber like materials, and others for powered coatings, with many different ways to treat it while avoiding harming whatever particular surface you are working on. The 'engineering chain' respobsible gir the materials might know, and this would allows users to spruce the camera up every few years, and deal with more nasty stuff (at least service centers could). I've got some coating system here I got from a $5 store, that I want to try in a bench top for refurbishment and hardening protection. I'd be interested if I could apply that as a one off wigjot it fouling the camera surface, melting parts of the surface, or flaking off within ten years from stretching twisting on hard surfaces let alone rubber like grips.

I still think a silicone/carbon water proof fiber glove skin would be a great thing to have. As some of your who follow me know, I have a number of nice design ideas for slim lined cages, battery accessories and cases, all with mount points for light equipment. These are the things that excite me. I can say a pocket mini like case styling with mount points would be LEGENDARY, and in the rich camera, put Arri to shame on set for smaller size use. I'm deep into other stuff at the moment, but I'm well interested I'm sharing to see commercial products developed on a profit share basis. I've got important things lined up, and might be approaching a local group to do a simple mobile app enterprise, so this thousands of sales territory is not a priority to do myself, and was thinking of approaching accessories companies of the sort of redrock micro one day. There are many products like this in camera accessories to do.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alain Bourassa, Xtreemtec, youlikeny and 24 guests