Blackmagic URSA CINE 12K LF Body

I have seen someone already pose the question, but no reply so thought id ask again...

Do we know if there shoulder mount from the Ursa mini pro g2 is compatible with this new camera?

You cannot ignore the absurd amount of EF lenses in the wild. Also the people that can afford multiple PL lenses most likely can afford the PL mount.

So as long as I don't negatively impact saving for a new apartment and car, I may pull the trigger on the UC12K this year...

You know what’s best for you, but given your recent misfortune, I’d stay living with your mother until she kicks you out! Bless her, for putting up with you.

Really glad Blackmagic released this body only version. However, … EF is useless to me. It's obsolete and needs to go away. So, if by the time that I am ready to make this purchase I hope that they do a PL version of the body only option.

Very much in agreement with this. The URSA cameras have always shown PL lots of love. It’s an obvious option and, respectfully, they should reconsider their approach in 2025.

… Do we know if there shoulder mount from the Ursa mini pro g2 is compatible with this new camera?

I’m assuming it is possible to use any URSA Mini shoulder mount on the Cine 12K LF Body but don’t “know” for a fact. We need to hear confirmation from someone using the Cine 12K.

You cannot ignore the absurd amount of EF lenses in the wild. Also the people that can afford multiple PL lenses most likely can afford the PL mount.

We am not ignoring EF shooters, just asking for a native PL mount for the Body as well. I already use my PL mount lenses with an adapter but was hoping to have the extra rigidity (and reduced cost) of a native mount.

You cannot ignore the absurd amount of EF lenses in the wild. Also the people that can afford multiple PL lenses most likely can afford the PL mount.

We am not ignoring EF shooters, just asking for a native PL mount for the Body as well. I already use my PL mount lenses with an adapter but was hoping to have the extra rigidity (and reduced cost) of a native mount.

Was referring to what they (BMD) would think. Having another option is ok. But I don't agree with the "EF needs to burn" idea .

Understand. Thanks.

I had pretty much made up mind to go with Pyxis as soon as I can afford it. The original Cine 12K LF is wonderful with so many features that make it a good value, but it’s beyond my means given all other life priorities and the dark cloud of uncertainty we have in Canada regarding our economy.

The Cine 12K LF Body may change my thinking as I can build up the rig I want from that body. Just want a native PL mount to save some dollars.

Understand. Thanks.

I had pretty much made up mind to go with Pyxis as soon as I can afford it. The original Cine 12K LF is wonderful with so many features that make it a good value, but it’s beyond my means given all other life priorities and the dark cloud of uncertainty we have in Canada regarding our economy.

The Cine 12K LF Body may change my thinking as I can build up the rig I want from that body. Just want a native PL mount to save some dollars.

I hear you, Rick. I work heavily in the Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities field and we have a lot of clients unsure of what their future holds with the current political climate. Luckily we still have some contracts in place, but yeah, uncertainty is definitely giving me pause on this camera... even though it would last a very long time!

You cannot ignore the absurd amount of EF lenses in the wild. Also the people that can afford multiple PL lenses most likely can afford the PL mount.

Unlike Rick I'm going to take the road of bashing EF. (Shrug)
Seriously, the EF Mount is a paperweight if we can't send it back for a rebate to use money for something else. Hell, it pays for the B-Mount Plate. So, unless you want that hunk of junk just sitting around its waste. So, no, I will bash EF. It's waste in my opinion. There's no reason to keep it if you need the PL. Waste of money for paperweight.

That's enough of that.

Adam, I think this camera will last. BMD put a lot of development into it. That's very evident. At this point it's building around the system. Wireless Video Assists with BMD Motors and Hand Unit for wireless focus pullers comes to mind.

Blackmagic is only getting started with this lineup. And, I'm thrilled by it. Some of the accessories for the camera have to be individually mass produced more now. But I think some of the UMP Accessories do work. Such as the Shoulder Mount.

It's most clear that the VCT Shoulder Plates made for the UMPs work on the UCine because in one review I saw someone using a third party one. So if that was made to same specs as BMD one then it will work. May feel a tad smaller to the body than it does on the UMPs.

And, I think we could potentially see a return of the UMP body with a 5" display like the Original URSA Mini, but this time featuring the internal ND and some exterior buttons on the back LCD that also has Status Display. So very much UMP, but taking cues from OG URSA Mini. This could have the same 12K VV Sensor and Media Modules and function as an URSA Cine Mini. So potentially most URSA Mini accessories could still work with that.

Blackmagic only has to do USB-C for the Viewfinder and then you're just replacing the UMP Top Handle and EVF for the UCine versions. So, thus accessories they already manufactured and exist in the world could still be used if such an URSA Cine Mini came to be.

Seriously, the EF Mount is a paperweight if we can't send it back for a rebate to use money for something else. Hell, it pays for the B-Mount Plate. So, unless you want that hunk of junk just sitting around its waste. So, no, I will bash EF. It's waste in my opinion. There's no reason to keep it if you need the PL. Waste of money for paperweight.

The reverse is also true. For people that don't need PL. Anyway, I agree that choosing the mount would be ideal. But until then EF is not bad.

[Tim Schumann]

A couple of questions about CFexpress cards, power outputs and dual card recording are answered over here.

Certs list is up on the support site now.

A couple of questions about CFexpress cards, power outputs and dual card recording are answered over here.

Certs list is up on the support site now.

AWESOME! Thanks Tim! My only needs are 8K at 120 FPS with the CFExpress to start. So as long as that's doable then I will survive.

Definitely. The top handle needs to be manufactured and doesn't give them any follow-up (hardware) revenue.

So why is BMD charging £260 for the license? Surely a top handle is less.
Just because its not manufactured does not mean it is worth less than something that require manufacturing especially if it is done by machine.

... It’s in my price bracket but does not look like a camera I would readily pick up to use in what I do as a lone shooter.
I need AF more than 12k.

I think with the lower price of the Cine 12K LF Body, one might consider adding the DJI Focus Pro for its auto focus capability that acts like a camera assistant. Did you read the Aaron Green post in the URSA Cine 12K LF thread to see how he effectively added ‘auto focus’ to his Pyxis with the Cine Top Handle and Pyxis Monitor EVF Kit? I’ve been debating which option of the Pyxis Monitor to add, but Aaron’s post has me wanting to replicate his approach.

Also remember the 12K photosites are best used when you’re recording 8K from the full sensor, or possibly record 4K in camera (better downscaled to 4K from 8K in post).

No way. I have nothing against adding DJi Focus Pro. For a lone shooter hiking this camera, extra weight, size, addtional power solution then adding DJI focus gear, motor, Lidar is not something I look forward to.

This is very tempting. I bought 2 of the Panasonic EVA1's early on, and while they still give a nice image, the 12K LF would make a perfect A cam for a new feature I'm hoping to shoot. I have the full 4 set of SLR Magic APO's and DZO Catta Ace Zoom, so I'd love to take advantage of the full frame lenses. Actually an 12K LF and full set of DZO Arles would make a great low cost cinema set, and Arles are supposed to getting lens data in am upcoming version.

Definitely. The top handle needs to be manufactured and doesn't give them any follow-up (hardware) revenue.

So why is BMD charging £260 for the license? Surely a top handle is less.
Just because its not manufactured does not mean it is worth less than something that require manufacturing especially if it is done by machine.

You’re conflating the WORTH of the product to the consumer versus the COST to Blackmagic to include that product.

Using some completely made up numbers: If a top handle costs 40 dollars in materials and labor and 5 dollars in shipping to include that’s a significant added cost to include for free. While printing a software license on a piece of plastic probably costs more like two dollars, and more importantly, there’s added worth in now having a customer in your ecosystem for free, something which might net you additional hardware sales in the future.

Another angle on the ‘savings’ going with the Body is that my best zoom lens option is the Tokina Cinema-ATX 25-75mm T2.9 zoom with 9 blade iris (because it has a 36mm image circle that matches the 9K window recording option) for $3,000 on sale.

If I went with the Pyxis, the best lens for me is the DZO Tango 19-90mm T2.9 with 16 blade iris (31.5mm image circle for recording in a 4K window) but it’s well over $8,000.

For events and what I do, a zoom on my A camera is essential. So adding another zoom factors into the total cost of the rigged cameras.

Any advice is welcome. I think the Body+Tokina would give me the best 4K deliverable but Pyxis+Tango may be fine.

You’re conflating the WORTH of the product to the consumer versus the COST to Blackmagic to include that product.

Using some completely made up numbers: If a top handle costs 40 dollars in materials and labor and 5 dollars in shipping to include that’s a significant added cost to include for free. While printing a software license on a piece of plastic probably costs more like two dollars, and more importantly, there’s added worth in now having a customer in your ecosystem for free, something which might net you additional hardware sales in the future.

Keeping Resolve relevant requires a constant engineering effort, developers don't work for free.

I have seen someone already pose the question, but no reply so thought id ask again...

Do we know if there shoulder mount from the Ursa mini pro g2 is compatible with this new camera?

No

JB

but myself and everyone else who’s been in this forum for the past 10+ years want to see BM have some mainstream success and get the respect it deserves too.

And then you know BMD have done this same thing with nearly every product they make.

Make insane value product.

Discount it surprisingly heavily later on.

Stagnant and bored were the words used. I disagree.

JB

Thanks for the update regarding the infeasibility of repurposing the URSA Mini shoulder mount.

...
And then you know BMD have done this same thing with nearly every product they make.

Make insane value product.

Discount it surprisingly heavily later on...

Let's hope BMD keeps up the great work. (...and great business model)

You’re conflating the WORTH of the product to the consumer versus the COST to Blackmagic to include that product.

Using some completely made up numbers: If a top handle costs 40 dollars in materials and labor and 5 dollars in shipping to include that’s a significant added cost to include for free. While printing a software license on a piece of plastic probably costs more like two dollars, and more importantly, there’s added worth in now having a customer in your ecosystem for free, something which might net you additional hardware sales in the future.

Keeping Resolve relevant requires a constant engineering effort, developers don't work for free.

Yeah I was doing some easy math there to make my point, sorry about that. That still doesn’t matter if (like I think Grant Petty has said before) BM makes money on the hardware, i.e. the price of the software is a loss leader (or a break even product) to get people into the ecosystem.

Where is the Ursa’s country of manufacture? Does anyone know of the Ursa could suddenly get more expensive in the US based on tariffs?

The cameras are not assembled in the United States or Canada or Mexico or UK or Colombia or EU or China. The tariff war may not affect them. However they may be officially sold through their worldwide regional centres like the UK and US so that might be a problem after all if, for example, Canada placed a retaliatory tariff on cameras from the US. I don’t think Canada is doing that.

The cameras are not assembled in the United States or Canada or Mexico or UK or Colombia or EU or China. The tariff war may not affect them. However they may be officially sold through their worldwide regional centres like the UK and US so that might be a problem after all if, for example, Canada placed a retaliatory tariff on cameras from the US. I don’t think Canada is doing that.

It is plausible that tariffs could be imposed on Australia. However, given the current political climate, it is difficult to predict the President’s actions. Tariffs could be imposed on Australia at any time for any reason, which would result in increased costs for prosumers. It is advisable for many of us to anticipate potential price changes in the coming years. One notable achievement of Blackmagic is their consistent pricing strategy for their customers.

I have seen someone already pose the question, but no reply so thought id ask again...

Do we know if there shoulder mount from the Ursa mini pro g2 is compatible with this new camera?

No

JB

Can I ask why it won’t work? Does something physically prevent it from being attached or is it that it blocks the vents (I seem to remember the CVP review saying that third party accessories would have to make sure to have clearance)? Or is it just not big enough for the camera?

Thanks!

Its not about that.

Its about using it while you get the other stuff. I am now more inclined on the 12K LF than on the Red Komodo X I was gonna get when one if one of my cams broke.

Yeah, this might be a good reason in fact to sell the Komodo at last

The Komodo is nice and all, but it's a bit limited in some areas... like audio, ergonomics (the top monitor is, to put it mildly, awkward). I realize that it's that way to keep its size down, but Cine 12K vs Komodo-X at pretty much the same price is kind of a no-brainer for anyone who isn't relying on a gimbal.

Which is most cinematographers.

Also remember the 12K photosites are best used when you’re recording 8K from the full sensor, or possibly record 4K in camera (better downscaled to 4K from 8K in post).

While in most cases 12K is major overkill, if you know what you're doing you can get close to the image quality of medium format stills cameras.

That said, the resolution as impressive as it is, is definitely not the camera's biggest selling point, IMO. the color is.

And then you know BMD have done this same thing with nearly every product they make.

Make insane value product.

Discount it surprisingly heavily later on.

Stagnant and bored were the words used. I disagree.

JB

I'm with you on this.

Black Magic isn't sitting on its booty; it's building stuff and shaking the industry up.

BMD isn't after prestige; even these cameras aren't priced for rental houses. They're priced for owner operators.

Where is the Ursa’s country of manufacture? Does anyone know of the Ursa could suddenly get more expensive in the US based on tariffs?

Singapore, AFAIK. BMD has a massive manufacturing hub out there.

I just hope that we can get them in Canada without having to go through the US first.

Quite excited for this! Not in a money place to make the move right now but I'd love to replace my 12k OLPF and have it take on b-cam duties. If it wasn't for the b-mount batteries I'd think about doing it soon as they start shipping, but I that's a real pretty penny to upgrade.

Does anyone know what the camera's power draw is with the EVF? I fly with batteries a good chunk and unfortunately for b-mount 98wh batteries seem to cost the same as 250wh+ batteries so seems like I'd wind up needing a set for travel where I'm keeping some on charge all the time and a set of bigger units for local shoots. Curious how people are dealing with this.

Also curious for anyone who's had em in hand how the balance compares to the ursa mini series. With my 12k OLPF and Angenieux EZ 1 or 2 I'm always running a shark fin and two 98wh batteries on the back to get a nice balance. Wondering if the 12k Cine's bit of extra weight and length would balance the EZs enough to not need shark fin. Though I suppose if I was running 275wh batteries that alone would be spreading things to the back anyway.

I've taken care of any company related messaging regarding tariffs:

Due to newly imposed tariffs, the cost of essential video production gear has risen, which will unfortunately lead to price adjustments for our services. At Tim Butt 2 Productions, we remain committed to delivering high-quality work while adapting to these changes. We appreciate your understanding and support!

This is the best that I can do to convey any price increases to customers.

Canadian and Mexican tariff hit delayed 30 days. Haven’t heard if China will also be spared a month.

Canadian and Mexican tariff hit delayed 30 days. Haven’t heard if China will also be spared a month.

I saw. Either way, I have a message prepared in the event that equipment costs go up for clientele to understand any price increases on my end due to that equipment price increase.

Can anyone confirm if the Ursa Cine 12k collects gyro metadata? One of the answers on B&H mentions it does but I can't seem to find any other info.

Sure does.

We used this feature extensively on a recent feature I did.

JB

I would like BMD to activate that feature (gyro) on the original 12K... as well as the RGB histogram... come on BMD.

This is just insane !

Darko, it sounds like the list of features not available (yet) on the Cine 12K is a lot shorter and easier to remember than the longer list of everything this camera can do! Congrats to the engineers.

Hi all,

Anyone know of any cost-effective CF Express cards not necessarily on the approved list that will handle 12k 3:1?

I'm buying the kit piecemeal and would rather have 4tb worth of cards for under £1000 for now, otherwise it makes more sense to get the 8TB module.

Sure does.

We used this feature extensively on a recent feature I did.

JB

Great to hear. Thanks, John.

… I'm buying the kit piecemeal and would rather have 4tb worth of cards for under £1000 for now, otherwise it makes more sense to get the 8TB module.

This recommendation should meet your requirements and it’s approved by BMD: Angelbird 4TB $699 USD

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... press.html

This was previously recommended by Jeffrey Mathias in the CFexpress Questions thread.

With those savings it may be worth ordering from the USA. Perhaps Angelbird has that special for Europe as well.

I would like BMD to activate that feature (gyro) on the original 12K... as well as the RGB histogram... come on BMD.

^+1

… I'm buying the kit piecemeal and would rather have 4tb worth of cards for under £1000 for now, otherwise it makes more sense to get the 8TB module.

This recommendation should meet your requirements and it’s approved by BMD: Angelbird 4TB $699 USD

This was previously recommended by Jeffrey Mathias in the CFexpress Questions thread.

With those savings it may be worth ordering from the USA. Perhaps Angelbird has that special for Europe as well.

Brilliant thanks!

Stagnant? Bored?

I’m not sure you can can really say that about Blackmagic design.

They are one of the few companies that are actually doing Ok business wise. Most others right now are struggling to keep the doors open.

Maybe you’re projecting a bit of yourself here?

JB

Spoke to ProAV last week in the UK and they said that BM is now outselling everything for them except Sony, which is no mean feat.

Spoke to ProAV last week in the UK and they said that BM is now outselling everything for them except Sony, which is no mean feat.

I agree that it's impressive, but I also am not surprised. Especially lately since BMD has been taking more risks like implementing an oddball maverick RGBW sensor at great expense, adopting a rigging friendly format for the Pyxis, and going nose to nose with Frame.IO.

In the high end Alexa Mini and Venice 2 remain top dogs, but those are built and priced for rental houses, not owner operators so their market is never going to be large.

I anticipate the combination of the Pyxis and 12K to start displacing Komodo and Komodo-X in the indie market.

It will probably be gradual due to the current economic climate, but once people start buying stuff again it will pick up.

I'd love to share with you my Wish List for the URSA Cine 12K Body Only that I put together so people can see what it would all cost. And, it's surprising. For just about $16K you can get a full package together with EVF and batteries and media cards, and it still costs less than the UC12K+EVF Package the BMD put together.
https://www.bnh.com/wish/0cd28cc2e2ce72 ... 6133bd1b1/

Nice list, Tim. I think you should have a minimum of 2 CFExpress cards and I’d drop the extra dual travel charger.

If you need to fly with your kit, shouldn’t you have batteries that are no more than 100 Wh?

Cards and batteries of course apply to the Cine 12K and Cine 12K Body equally but impressive all the items in your Wishlist add up to less than the Cine 12K + EVF.

What are you going to use for a monitor? Was the Pyxis Monitor Kit in your Wishlist?

... It’s in my price bracket but does not look like a camera I would readily pick up to use in what I do as a lone shooter.
I need AF more than 12k.

I think with the lower price of the Cine 12K LF Body, one might consider adding the DJI Focus Pro for its auto focus capability that acts like a camera assistant.

I have the DJI Focus Pro with my PL mount Pyxis. It is magic. The ability to hold the focus against the LiDAR focus with the force feedback is super useful. My son even borrowed my setup today for a shoot of an MMA fight scene for a student film because it allows the fight choreography to be adjusted on the fly easily, He tried using the focus on their FX6 at school for some test footage and let's just say it wasn't ideal for the high movement and intent he was looking for.