Multilayer Keyframe Editing is Gone in V20, Unacceptable

The current keyframe editing experience is frustrating. Previously, we could see the keyframe timeline per clip, which made it easier to adjust effects based on multiple clips but not very much intuitive at all but its still make sense.

Screenshot 2025-04-23 103427.png (34.22 KiB) Viewed 4448 times

For example, if I want to zoom in on one clip and zoom out on another, I could view both keyframes and adjust them according to my preference.

But right now, there’s no per-clip keyframe panel. While the current system is good, it doesn’t need to be separate. Why can’t we include keyframe editing directly within the clip-based panel?

The spline implementation is a good step—it makes sense—but please either fix this or ensure we can view and edit keyframes for multiple clips simultaneously, so we can create desired effects and speed ramps between clips more easily.

While I agree with the overall sentiment, I have to say the old curve editor was horrible, so I'm glad to see it go! I've seen some requests to bring back the old curve editor (both on the forum and on youtube videos), but I have to say, PLEASE don't bring that back... I feel there is a better way to address these issues using the new editors.

1) Allow the bottom timeline keyframe editor to switch to spline mode (just like the upper panel can). Since the bottom keyframe editor is synced to the timeline, the curves from the spline editor would also be synced to the clips.

2) Allow us to open multiple clips inside of the keyframe/spline editors. Then we could access all of the keyframes/curves across multiple clips inside a single editor. If you need to align the end of clip 1 and the start of clip 2, you could select both of their keyframes/splines together and adjust them at the same time.

This method would be perfect!

I also made a very detailed list of requests for the keyframe/spline editors and both of these are in my list.

Keyframe/Spline Editors - Bugs & Suggestions:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=220044

- 21) Currently, the keyframe/spline editors do not show anything if more than one clip is selected. The editors should be able to handle multiple clip selection to be able to match curves across multiple clips.
- 23) An option to toggle to the spline editor inside of the lower timeline editor (just like we can for the upper panel).

I never said to bring back the old keyframe editor —
I hated that too. But seriously,
how did no one on the DaVinci Resolve team think that editors might need to work across multiple clips when adding or adjusting keyframes?

Do they really believe that professional editors — especially in Hollywood-level workflows — only work on one clip at a time? That’s just not how real editing works

Apologies for the bit of frustration earlier.

Screenshot 2025-04-23 180622.png (69.49 KiB) Viewed 4350 times

Old Keyframe Panel — I Hate It, Still Hate It, But It At Least Does The Job It's Supposed To Do
Just look at the current keyframe editing system — how exactly are we supposed to apply effects across multiple clips?

It’s honestly a really poor implementation in Resolve right now. Any editor working with effects will immediately ask the same question:

How am anyone supposed to match key frames between clips?

I never said to bring back the old keyframe editor — I hated that too.

Yeah, I know you didn't mention bringing the old one back... but I really don't want that to end up being the solution Blackmagic goes with, so I felt it needed to be clearly stated to NOT bring it back.

But seriously, how did no one on the DaVinci Resolve team think that editors might need to work across multiple clips when adding or adjusting keyframes?

I agree, we absolutely need to be able to work across multiple clips. Being able to do that in a single editor would be amazing. I hope this is on their to-do list and it just didn't get done in time for the beta release (they always release their next major version with the NAB Show).

+1 this was my first thought when I tried keyframing in version 20.

We need to be able to see what the keyframes are doing on other clips / elements while animating. Seeing multiple clips in the Keyframe Tray would be a good way to do this, just like seeing multiple nodes in the Keyframe editor on the Fusion page.

Any ideas / suggestions for BM on how to handle overlapping keyframes when viewing multiple clips?

i.e. how do you identify which keyframes belong to which clip?

(e.g. when there is a transition I might start the incoming clip's motion keyframe before the outgoing clip's motion is finished.)

Good question Mark. I think Blackmagic could take inspiration from the Fusion page's Keyframe panel. When multiple nodes have animated properties, the Keyframe panel will show the various keyframes for each node in a nested set of properties. Replace "nodes" with "clips" and this could be what the Keyframe Tray does in the Edit page.

And for visual clarity, perhaps the stacking order in the Keyframe Tray could sort the clips by track index and by in-point on the timeline?

So for example if you selected a clip on track 1, another on track 3, and another on track 4, the Keyframe Tray would show the track 1 clip at the bottom and the track 4 clip at the top.

Or if you selected 5 clips on the same track, the Keyframe Tray could order them by which comes first in the timeline.

just a basic thing for a NLE yet..We don't have it...
Please BMD..Its just Basic..Don't Take away A basic thing from a NLE

old Key frame editor where I Can see multiple Clips Key frame adjust accordingly even though I hate it and don't wanna back it...but its Practical

Please BMD Do something...DR will be unusable for us now...

Any ideas / suggestions for BM on how to handle overlapping keyframes when viewing multiple clips?

In my request thread for the keyframe/spline editors I gave a couple options.

Keyframe/Spline Editors - Bugs & Suggestions:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=220044

21) Currently, the keyframe/spline editors do not show anything if more than one clip is selected. The editors should be able to handle multiple clip selection to be able to match curves across multiple clips. When it comes to editing with multiple clips selected, here are a couple options we could have available:
- Option #1: the keyframes/splines for only one clip is editable (selected via a dropdown list) with the keyframes/splines for the other clips grayed out but still visible in the background. This could be very useful when editing one clip to match other clips without accidentally changing the other clips.
- Option #2: all keyframes/splines for all selected clips are editable, making it possible to edit keyframes/splines across multiple clips at the same time. For multiple clips that have keyframes at the same location, they would be placed on top of each other in the viewer and a way to select individual keyframes would be necessary. One option is to have a list of clips that can be made visible/hidden to select keyframes only for those clips. Another option is when a keyframe is shared across multiple clips, have a popup list showing the clips so you could choose which clip(s) to include in the selection, then moving the keyframe will move only the keyframe for the selected clip(s) without having to hide the other clips. (Hopefully this last one makes sense, if not I could try to make a diagram to better illustrate it).

But I like Philip's idea of the nested clip properties better than my idea for a dropdown list.
"When multiple nodes have animated properties, the Keyframe panel will show the various keyframes for each node in a nested set of properties. Replace "nodes" with "clips" and this could be what the Keyframe Tray does in the Edit page."

That was kind of my idea with using a dropdown list to select the clip, but having nested parameters visible on the side panel with check boxes to show/hide them... I like that format better.

My other idea of having one clip that is editable while the other clips are only viewable (grayed out in the background) was inspired by Melodyne, where you can choose to only edit one track but you can still see the others in the background. That format would be very useful when matching splines to other clips but you don't want to accidentally edit them.

So putting that into context with Philip's idea for the nested clip properties, you could have two check boxes for each property:
1) View
2) Edit

Then you could view parameters without being able to edit them.
If "Edit" is checked, then "View" it is automatically enabled.
If "View" is unchecked, then "Edit" is automatically unchecked (IF it was checked).

Think this would be a good system. Any thoughts?

These problems have all been solved long ago in many softwares where editing the curves and keyframes of multiple objects at the same time is bread and butter. Take any 3d software for example, Blender is easy to poke around with for ideas and has one of the most flexible curve editors I know. Wanna rotate?! the curve around arbitrary point? Go ahead lol

The thing is, it's already there in DR 19 with the old Keyframe Editor (I HATE IT).

Did the engineers at Blackmagic even stop to think about that?
This whole class of new Keyframe Editor only applies to a single clip.

So what's the point of having a world-class keyframe editor if we can only do basic keyframing — stuff that could just be done in the Inspector?

Just like Dan said — I mean, I’m just getting worked up here…
Why would they remove something that’s so basic — the bread and butter of any NLE — and no one at Blackmagic even questions how we’re supposed to do proper keyframing now?

It’s like a lion has teeth, but eats vegetables.

How does Avid solve this?

Hello, I am Krrish, very new to the forum… Been using DR for 2 years now.

The new update is great, amazing — bravo DR team! But there’s a drawback or catch, or should I say… something snatched away — a great feature that could have been better, but instead, it looks good, feels practical, yet has no real use at all.

We need Keframe panel Per clip like before but with new Modern keyframe panel , not a Whole panle for single clip

Screenshot (44).jpg (220.86 KiB) Viewed 4078 times

Please DR,
We need to be able to see multi-layer CLIP keyframes to edit any video file. It’s not like anyone in the world works on just a single footage only.

They Can replace the old keyframe editor with the new modern one with toggle to switch between keyframe and Curve...and whalla Problem solved

And also — another forum I saw was talking about the Retime Curve. Although I’m not a fan of the old editor, still… the Retime Curve thing can be implemented better, especially now that we have good curve control.

Welcome, Krrish, to the forum! I totally understand your frustration, brother.

Honestly, it’s just questionable—like, how has no one, even in DR, raised this yet? How are we supposed to keyframe across multiple clips... or match effects on multiple clips?

Just... how? Seriously, how?

There’s a term in software dev called dogfooding - as in you have to eat your own dogfood (use and depend on your own product) to make it any good. If you’re a developer and not a subject matter expert in the field for which you’re developing then you’re going to break things pretty badly when you innovate.

I have no doubt that, given that Resolve has been the world leader in Color Grading for decades, BMD has tons of in house expertise in it.

Editing, on the other hand, has never been their core competency. Plus it’s grown in house so they didn’t acquire a team with that expertise like they did with Fusion and Fairlight. To me it looks like they don’t have professional editors in house and those they talk to aren’t involved early enough in the design process to course correct before decisions are embedded in many man hours of code.

Will explain, sir. @Joe Shapiro
I'm junior to you, of course — but this just hits me every time I think about it.

Like you said, I genuinely love Resolve — how unique it is, and how much thought the team puts into it. That’s never in question.

But still… how did they overlook something so basic and essential in the Edit tab?
This is a feature that really has to be there.

Please, BMD... if this really is the case — I’m sure many people just haven’t noticed yet, maybe because they haven’t downloaded Resolve 20 due to it still being in beta.

But trust me — the first question that’s going to come up after the full release will be:
“Where the hell am I supposed to match keyframes?!”

We need Keframe panel Per clip like before but with new Modern keyframe panel , not a Whole panle for single clip

Even if they replaced the curve editor with the new one, I still do not like the idea of having the curve editor underneath each clip. That button on each clip was always in the way, especially when zoomed out and the clips were small. I can't count how many times I popped open that curve editor on accident. Even Casey Faris (one of the prominent Resolve tutorial youtube channels) was mocking that old annoying curve editor button in his video on the new Spline Editor. Also, the curve editor under each clip took up a lot of space on your timeline in between tracks. Opening/closing the curve editor for each individual clip was a pain. I think there are many reasons not to go back to that old method.

I still think the best option is to use the single editor, but allow multiple clips to be opened inside of the editor at once. This is where they should put their focus. With Philip's idea of the nested parameters panel on the side, you could select which clips and parameters are visible/editable.

Another more advanced layout option, would be to have stacked spline editors (just like Stacked Timelines) where you could create a new instance of the spline editor and stack them on top of each other (but all within the single spline editor) and you could select which parameters are viewable in each one. But I'm probably getting way ahead of myself with this one, because I think the basics need to be completed first before tackling something like this. But at some point down the line this would be very cool though.

I understand some functionality was lost in this new implementation but when compared to Avid Media Composer (supposedly the best for editorial), this new implementation for Resolve is actually much closer to how Media Composer deals with key framing (one clip at a time), if memory serves.

How did editors manage to work with Media Composer all these years without being able to modify keyframes across multiple clips (or in the context of multiple clips)?

I'm not saying that seeing keyframes in the context of multiple clips isn't valuable, I just don't know how this new implementation is an indication that the BMD doesn't know editing when they appear to have mimicked Avid's implementation (or at least basic approach).

Am I mistaken regarding Avid's approach?

With all due respect, @Steve Alexander,

What do you mean by AVID? DR was never compared to AVID. I hate AVID — just a crappy software from ancient times. Just because it happened to be one of the first NLEs and became a standard does not make it good.

Just how you think I don’t understand… Apologies for the rude tone,
but let’s be practical. I’m working on 79 shots for a short music clip. Now I have to match keyframes with all multi-layer clips and effects.
Is that even possible — to match this many clips in the timeline while guessing where the keyframe is?

The only option is to add a timeline marker to each keyframe, but then again… I have speed ramps and zoom effects on the clip. That’s a total of 8 markers — then it becomes laughable.

And that’s just one clip. For real estate editing, every clip has speed ramps and zoom effects.

Just imagine, sir — if you’re working on any project like a wedding, movie, song, live production, or even their new features like Replay Editor — we have to mix and match clips and effects (from small zooms to big multi-layered effects).
We have to see the per-clip keyframes.

Now you tell me, sir — how are we gonna achieve this?

It’s not about missing features in the new update — it’s that the basic bread and butter of a well put-together NLE is gone.

I don't know what to tell you, Dan. Avid Media Composer is (for editors) still the gold standard in Hollywood editing suites for editing. Maybe the answer is that editors in Hollywood don't bother themselves with all those effects - maybe they just edit and then pass it off to the VFX team and audio team for the rest of it and if that's the case, then we can see why they can live with the inadequacies of the way in which Media Composer handles key framing of effects on a per-clip basis.

Resolve, on the other hand, integrates so many workflows into the same package that being able to make changes to keyframes in one clip in the context of key frames in other clips (including audio) is very important (as you've mentioned) to other workflows.

So yes, I mentioned Avid because it's clear that if BMD used Avid as the gold standard for how a key frame editor should work, then that's why things went wrong. We have lost a valuable workflow element in this update. There have been many discussions as to how the key frame editor should be changed and let's hope that BMD listens.

Btw - you were a bit rude but I'm not offended - it shows your passion for this subject

The way to handle clutter on a spline editor or keyframe editor is with keyboard shortcuts for commonly used properties and a general "usage" shortcut to show any animated properties without having to use menus.

In Ae when you're on the keyframe editor, you hit "P" for only position. You hit "R" for rotation and so on... Then for when you're doing more obscure things like changing the length of a speed change you hit "U" for usage. This works on a per object level so you can hit "R" for rotate on layer 1, then match the rotation the another layer's position timing by selecting only layer 2 and hitting "P". Easy-peasy, move your lemon squeezy.

Hitting any of these commands twice will collapse said property.

This is the only real way to make an efficient editor for doing this type of work. Having to use the menus to select certain properties is clunky and even in Fusion, it's unwieldy to have a a few relationships up between multiple nodes even when you have "Only Animated" selected.

You need to access and show particular properties across multiple selections at once with a shortcut system.

@Steve Alexander
I really apologize for the rude behavior, I'm really sorry.

But it's just that I am on a project where there are so many clips and so many sound FX... total 20 min clips, basically a music video with different locations.
Just totally excited to use the new AI audio remix tool and auto multi-cam edit,
& of course the new keyframe editor — I was so excited to try it out... as you know, I can do the speed ramp better now.

Then just working on Beta 1 and not finding the keyframe in layer... after 5 minutes of clicking and finding, I came to know it disappeared from Beta 1... thought it was a mistake, but in Beta 2 it's the same.

Just frustration... just how they remove an essential thing like this... in 2025, is there anyone who uses only one clip to edit? They should just nest the editor per clip like before but in a new efficient way

@Tekkerue you said you want nested keyframe editor, but there's a catch you missed... the nested system will only work when clips are side by side.
But if the clips are on top of each other... how will the new keyframe editor show it?

The best approach would be like before — per-clip keyframe editor, but in a new efficient way

Hi Dan - I appreciate the apology, but not necessary. I totally understand the frustration of losing a core workflow component, particularly since we were all so excited about the new release. I'm hopeful BMD will listen to this feedback and provide a properly engineered solution. Cheers!

What if you compound the clips?

@Tekkerue you said you want nested keyframe editor, but there's a catch you missed... the nested system will only work when clips are side by side. But if the clips are on top of each other... how will the new keyframe editor show it?

My idea for the stacked spline editor is specifically for clips stacked on top of each other. I frequently use clips/effects that are on top of each other, so this is definitely something I'm taking into consideration.

I just threw a quick idea together in MS Paint. On the side panel I used the existing layout for the keyframe editor, but that panel would include clips and parameters as well. So you could select which clips and which parameters are shown in each editor.

Stacked Spline Editors.png (79.28 KiB) Viewed 3674 times

When you enable stacked view, you could have the top editor show the spline for the top clip and the bottom editor show the spline for the bottom clip.

If you disable stacked view, then you'd have a single editor with all clips together in a single editor. Then the idea that was discussed earlier about a side panel where you could choose which clips/parameters are visible and editable would allow you to choose which splines you are working on.

One example in the single spline view, you could have the bottom clip visible in the background (but not editable) while you match the top clip to match the exact shape of the spline.

Hello Gellow Friends,

I am just registered in this forum. Not familiar with anything. May not combine their rules yet and how to talk.
Please accept my apologies beforehand.

I recently encountered a problem. I just bought Resolve Studio licence & before using the free version for my production just to check out, we are currently 7 people on my team... Going back and forth in Adobe is so sh**ting frustrating, a total crap.. But I like the approach of Resolve.. even though not many premade templates are available as Adobe,
but don't need those for my professional work.. Fusion is enough for me.

Just installed 20 and got encountered a problem. I am not finding the keyframe editor for clip...
When I selected multiple clips, keyframe disappears... Don't know why...
In V19 free version, we can open the per clip keyframe panel to mix and match the keyframe for our project.
I just can't find any similar option in V20... The new keyframe panel is good.... But there has to be a toggle or something, right??

Can you guys tell me, or am I missing something or missing a button?

I came here to claim exactly the same.
So +1

I dont get it, why some Windows or Workspace-Areas are fixed, and some other are (only) resizeable.

Adobe (and I hate Premiere) at least, gives you the opportunity to undock, move and adjust every window.

Its senseless, what davinci does.

Please fix it.

@apfilm I know, and sorry, bro.

But the fixed windows — I pretty much agree with Blackmagic. Sorry, bro.

Every window being movable sounds like a simple thing, but if you know a bit of coding and production work...

DaVinci Resolve is so stable because it does not have movable windows like Premiere.

What they can do instead, like the new Spline panel — you can undock it, or like the Scope panel in the color page — you can undock.

But we are getting off-topic... Please BMD, fix this essential thing that every professional user uses for daily base.

I’m working on 79 shots for a short music clip. Now I have to match keyframes with all multi-layer clips and effects.
Is that even possible — to match this many clips in the timeline while guessing where the keyframe is?

Parking the TCI and just selecting individual clips is how we've always done it.

Elastic Keyframes helps by copying and pasting with Elastic Keyframes enabled where the keyframes are bound to clip length rather than source media length. This way you can past the same effect on multiple clips and have them all automatically the same without having to manually line them up irrespective of clip length. This in Avid MC takes seconds not hours if the clip length is changed. Premier used to have this but may have removed it the option. We will all appreciate not needing to continually be moving keyframes every time we edit a timeline clip length.

No other main NLE has the feature of seeing multiple clips' splines and would be a fantastic feature to have alongside Elastic Keyframes.

+1

The problem is, the multi-layer keyframe edit is already there in the previous version of DR, and one of the most unique features that stand out from other NLEs.

Thousand of people already utilized that thing... even if it's not the most efficient way... still, it does the goddamn job done. We are happy for that.

But now, a unique and most important feature that stands out is gone... While the new keyframe editor is good, the multi-layer editing is... is gone.
I am not seeing any use for this fancy docking when I can only see one clip keyframe in the whole big keyframe panel.
Apologies, BMD, but it's just harsh reality.

That's all.

Yes Dany, that is also my point. I mean, it's not possible that they would remove this essential thing from DR.
I think it will come back in the upcoming beta — they are testing it now.

It's just not possible to remove this feature at all. The Blackmagic team also knows it.

I second this - I included this in my list of issues and feature requests

Screenshot 2025-04-23 180622.png

Old Keyframe Panel — I Hate It, Still Hate It, But It At Least Does The Job It's Supposed To Do
Just look at the current keyframe editing system — how exactly are we supposed to apply effects across multiple clips?

It’s honestly a really poor implementation in Resolve right now. Any editor working with effects will immediately ask the same question:

How am anyone supposed to match key frames between clips?

I just threw a quick idea together in MS Paint. On the side panel I used the existing layout for the keyframe editor, but that panel would include clips and parameters as well. So you could select which clips and which parameters are shown in each editor.

Stacked Spline Editors.png

When you enable stacked view, you could have the top editor show the spline for the top clip and the bottom editor show the spline for the bottom clip.

If you disable stacked view, then you'd have a single editor with all clips together in a single editor. Then the idea that was discussed earlier about a side panel where you could choose which clips/parameters are visible and editable would allow you to choose which splines you are working on.

One example in the single spline view, you could have the bottom clip visible in the background (but not editable) while you match the top clip to match the exact shape of the spline.

This kind of flexibility is what should be the target. Put all curves into single graph, have multiple graphs etc, whatever fits the current work best. Whether this kind of flexibility is allowed to fit into Resolve's rigid UI concept, to be seen.

@Hendrik Proosa
as previously member said
Fixed windows — I pretty much agree with Blackmagic. Sorry, bro.
Every window being movable sounds like a simple thing, but if you know a bit of coding and production work.. DaVinci Resolve is so stable because it does not have movable windows like Premiere.

We Don’t Need Anything Fancy Or Over-Engineered—Just Bring Back The Multi-Layer Keyframe Editing We've Had For Years And Were Perfectly Happy With.

The New Editor Should Integrate With old Keyframe System, Not Remove It. You've Taken Away A Functional, Essential Feature That Thousands Of Editors Use Every Single Day

Fixed windows — I pretty much agree with Blackmagic. Sorry, bro.

Sorry bro they have already failed you with floating windows and movable dividers. And I didn't even reference any non-fixed windows, but the content of a curve editor window (what's inside a window), bro.

I have to chime in here as well. While I don't really care about most of the other keyframe options that are gone, it's the missing retiming curve that blows my mind. This was the no1 reason why I switched to Resolve from Premiere and in EVERY conversation that I have with other editors, trying to convince them to make the switch, I brought up the convenience that this used to offer. I am shocked that they removed this- my entire workflow for speedramps is broken right now- this is such an essential feature! Please just let us have both options!

@chfilm Yes, brother — the Retime Curve is like a god-like feature in Resolve!

Let us have both options. Now that we have better keyframe editing, they can implement that on the old edit as well...

How did they miss this feature?

@Hendrik Proosa Sorry brother

+1 Would like to ALSO have the per clip timeline view. Give us the option to choose.

@Hendrik Proosa
as previously member said
Fixed windows — I pretty much agree with Blackmagic. Sorry, bro.
Every window being movable sounds like a simple thing, but if you know a bit of coding and production work.. DaVinci Resolve is so stable because it does not have movable windows like Premiere.

Hendrik was referencing my example, and my example wasn't about movable windows. Having movable windows is a separate issue, but I will quickly say this idea that movable windows causes instability is simply false. My primary DAW Reaper not only has movable windows, but you can save them as screensets and assign them to keyboard shortcuts for immediate switching. I use this all the time and it's amazing. Reaper is also regarded as one of the most stable, efficient, fast, and light weight DAWs available. So Adobe's stability problems with Premiere, Audition, etc. has nothing to do with movable windows.

We Don’t Need Anything Fancy Or Over-Engineered—Just Bring Back The Multi-Layer Keyframe Editing We've Had For Years And Were Perfectly Happy With.

There is nothing "over-engineered" about my example of Stacked Editors. Resolve already has that same functionality with Stacked Timelines and my proposal is to do exactly that same thing with the keyframe/spline editors.

Everyone here has already expressed their dislike for the old curve editor, so no, we were not happy with it. Even Casey Faris (one of the prominent Resolve youtube tutorial channels) mocked the old curve editor in his video talking about the new editors. I too am very happy to see it go. However, they definitely need to implement support for multiple clips in the new editors.

I do agree that Blackmagic removed the old curve editor prematurely because the new editors are clearly not ready for prime time yet. So IF Blackmagic does bring back the old curve editor, it should only be temporary just for now, until the new editors are completed. The old curve editors should not be a permanent solution. There is a much better solution with the new keyframe/spline editors and I hope they keep moving in that direction instead of going back to the old methods that everyone complained about.

The New Editor Should Integrate With old Keyframe System, Not Remove It.

I disagree. The old clip-based editor was terrible for many reasons outside of the curve editor itself not functioning well.

Here are just a few reasons:

1) You have to open/close the editor on each clip one at a time. It's much better to have a single editor that you open/close and then selecting other clip(s) loads them into the editor immediately. No need to futz around with opening and closing multiple editors.

2) The curve editor button on every clip was constantly getting in the way. Especially when zoomed way out on the timeline so the clips were small. I lost count of how many times I unintentionally popped open that annoying curve editor while trying to grab the edge of a clip or select it. I LOVE not having that button in my way anymore.

3) It takes up a lot of space between your clips on the timeline. Having the editor at the bottom of the screen and out of the middle of your timeline makes it much easier to keep working with your clips while also having the keyframe/spline editor open at the same time.

4) You cannot select keyframes across multiple clips at the same time. If the keyframe at the end of Clip1 and the start of Clip2 are in exactly the same place, you sill have to edit them separately because each clip editor is a completely separate editor. That's double the work when in a single editor you could simply select both of their keyframes together and move them at the same time.

There is nothing the old method can do that couldn't be done better with the new editors, so this is the direction I hope Blackmagic goes in.

Curve editing across multiple objects has been done for decades. I was doing this in Softimage XSI and Cinema 4d in a past life as a 3d artist. Look up images of Cinema 4d curve editors. Replace the 3d objects with timeline names and you have a perfect template for what should be available. For some reason video editing programs have always had terrible curve editing.

Organization should have things like showing selected timeline curves in a bright color and unselected in a dim color. Selecting multiple timelines so you can edit curves at the same time, options to show only timelines that have animation curves and and options to only show the curves of those timelines.

I get the feeling on a lot of the things being added in that the people doing the work are unfamiliar with the uses of what they are adding in. This is why we have 3 or 4 different text node in Fusion. They didn't understand the needs of what they added in, so they had to ad din additional versions and none of the versions can do everything the other versions can do, so we now have a mess.

The curve editor should be done right and if they don't have the time or experience to do it right for this release, I think it should be pushed back to the next release, because from everything I have seen so far, this would prevent me from using v20. As my Dad would say, do it right or don't do it at all.

Here is a link to an example image of a cinema 4d curve editor showing curves from several objects. Everything you need to edit the curves is right there in the top tool bar. This is how it should be done.
https://www.mattrittman.com/wp-content/ ... editor.png

Well said!
Key takeaways:
Look at others’ successful implementations for inspiration rather than making stuff up in a vacuum.
Either be seasoned user of what you’re implementing or work CLOSELY with one or more people who are squarely in your target market and get feedback from them actually using the feature for real work.

For me, and many others who work in cinema, real estate, music, and color grading — dealing with multiple clips — it feels like the world is heading in the wrong direction. Instead of just focusing on color grading movies like Hollywood, now they’re dragging us into the doom too.

They should take inspiration from our own Fusion Page, as my brother mentioned earlier. In Fusion, when selecting clips, the selected curve stands out — it’s brighter than the rest. I don’t know why others can’t do this.

I also had a wild idea they could implement — and I even asked about it during a Blackmagic livestream: could they integrate the Fusion Keyframe Editor and Spline Editor directly into the Edit Page? That way, we could use the same powerful editors for adjustments right within the Edit Page. Most importantly, we could view and tweak Fusion titles and effect keyframes and curves without switching over to the Fusion Page for every minor adjustment.

They said it’s possible, but practically speaking, they need to see if it would really help users.

As of now, I’m sticking with Version 19 — worst-case, I’ll have to switch later.

@chfilm Yes, brother — the Retime Curve is like a god-like feature in Resolve!

Let us have both options. Now that we have better keyframe editing, they can implement that on the old edit as well...

How did they miss this feature?

@Hendrik Proosa Sorry brother

AMEN

So are we talking just overlapping clips so that we can see the splines for all vertical clips in a given time range or are you imagining that the keyframe/spline editor window could be zoomed-out to show the entire timeline of clips/keyframes/splines, potentially?

I also had a wild idea they could implement — and I even asked about it during a Blackmagic livestream: could they integrate the Fusion Keyframe Editor and Spline Editor directly into the Edit Page? That way, we could use the same powerful editors for adjustments right within the Edit Page. Most importantly, we could view and tweak Fusion titles and effect keyframes and curves without switching over to the Fusion Page for every minor adjustment.

I don't think that's wild at all! In my thread of bugs/suggestions for the Keyframe/Spline Editor that I mentioned previously, being able to publish Fusion effects to the edit page and control them with the new keyframe/spline editors was one of my suggestions.

Keyframe/Spline Editors - Bugs & Suggestions:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=220044

"18) Ability to move Fusion parameters to the Edit page and be used with the keyframe/spline editors. Something like a Right-Click -> “Publish to Edit Page” option in Fusion (for individual controls, nodes, and groups of nodes) to quickly and easily move controls from Fusion to the Edit page. Once the controls are on the Edit page, then they could be keyframed with the new editors."

Essentially, this would be a fast and direct way of getting Fusion controls onto the Edit page without having to go through the tedious macro export/import process. And if the new editors worked with Fusion effects, this would be perfect.

Personally, I like the design of the new keyframe/spline editors better than Fusion editors. Once the new editors are finalized and polished (there are still a lot of kinks to work out), I'd love to see the new editors replace the editors in Fusion. Then Fusion and the Edit page could also share the same keyframe/spline editors (in the same way that all of the pages share the same timeline).

Currently you can set simple keyframes on Fusion effects from the Inspector on the Edit page and these keyframes will show up back in Fusion. However, you cannot adjust their curves on the Edit page because it appears their curve editors are incompatible. Using the same editors in both places would allow the keyframes/curves to be edited in Fusion or the Edit page. This would be incredible!

So are we talking just overlapping clips so that we can see the splines for all vertical clips in a given time range or are you imagining that the keyframe/spline editor window could be zoomed-out to show the entire timeline of clips/keyframes/splines, potentially?

The way I envisioned it would provide a couple options that we could choose from:

#1) SINGLE VIEW: For all clips that are stacked vertically on the timeline, overlay all curves over the top of each other. Then you'd have a couple options for displaying/accessing the curves.
- Visible
- Editable
If a curve is visible, you can see the curve on the editor.
If a curve is editable, you can grab the points and edit them.
If a curve is visible, but not editable it will be "grayed out" and only visible in the background. This way you could match the curve of one clip to another without accidentally editing the other clip.

#2) STACKED VIEW: This would be like the image I made in Paint previously, where you could have multiple editors stacked on top of each other (like the Stacked Timeline). This would be how you'd "zoom out" to see multiple clips stacked vertically on top of each other.

My original idea was to manually choose which clips are loaded into the stacked editors, but it would probably be better for this to be automatic. If you select two vertically stacked clips on the timeline, you get two stacked editors. If you select three vertically stacked clips, you'll get three stacked editors. Etc. So the stacked view just follows your selection on the timeline, automatically adding/removing editors as you select/deselect clips.

If there are view options that would be useful for other tasks, those could be added too. Then we could select whichever view works best for the task.

I also had a wild idea they could implement — and I even asked about it during a Blackmagic livestream: could they integrate the Fusion Keyframe Editor and Spline Editor directly into the Edit Page? That way, we could use the same powerful editors for adjustments right within the Edit Page. Most importantly, we could view and tweak Fusion titles and effect keyframes and curves without switching over to the Fusion Page for every minor adjustment.

The fusion spline and keyframe editors are both terrible. They are functional but I hate using them. I think both of them should be updated once they get the Edit page curve and keyframe editor straightened out. They also need to be floating windows that can be positioned on separate monitors or wherever I want them. Having both of them fighting to use the same space as the nodes window is just crazy. I don't know how that design ever got approved.

#2) STACKED VIEW: This would be like the image I made in Paint previously, where you could have multiple editors stacked on top of each other (like the Stacked Timeline). This would be how you'd "zoom out" to see multiple clips stacked vertically on top of each other.

My original idea was to manually choose which clips are loaded into the stacked editors, but it would probably be better for this to be automatic. If you select two vertically stacked clips on the timeline, you get two stacked editors. If you select three vertically stacked clips, you'll get three stacked editors. Etc. So the stacked view just follows your selection on the timeline, automatically adding/removing editors as you select/deselect clips.

If there are view options that would be useful for other tasks, those could be added too. Then we could select whichever view works best for the task.

This would be a huge waste of screen space. The image I posted a link to earlier would be better. Each layer would be represented on the side of the screen with options to view or edit that timeline's keyframes (a simple check box to enable disable, not something buried in a right click menu like they seem fond of doing).

Having one set to view only would show it greyed out behind the other timeline key frames for reference. Setting multiple timeline to edit would show them overlapping allowing you to edit multiple keys at once. Each would have a little drop down menu (Similar to what is in the V19 editor) that would show additional option (rotate, position x, position y, etc.) so you can only show the keyframes you want to edit. Each timeline would get it's own colors for the curves to help differentiate what belongs to what timeline.

As I said in my other post, this isn't something new, it's been around for decades in 3d programs.

#2) STACKED VIEW: This would be like the image I made in Paint previously, where you could have multiple editors stacked on top of each other (like the Stacked Timeline). This would be how you'd "zoom out" to see multiple clips stacked vertically on top of each other.

This would be a huge waste of screen space. The image I posted a link to earlier would be better. Each layer would be represented on the side of the screen with options to view or edit that timeline's keyframes (a simple check box to enable disable, not something buried in a right click menu like they seem fond of doing).

Having one set to view only would show it greyed out behind the other timeline key frames for reference. Setting multiple timeline to edit would show them overlapping allowing you to edit multiple keys at once. Each would have a little drop down menu (Similar to what is in the V19 editor) that would show additional option (rotate, position x, position y, etc.) so you can only show the keyframes you want to edit. Each timeline would get it's own colors for the curves to help differentiate what belongs to what timeline.

What you described is exactly what my first option ("Single View") would do. So to be clear, my request wasn't for only having one or the other, it was to have both options available. Then you can choose which view you want based on the task you are doing. If you only want a single view at all times, then you can use that. Personally, I would very much like to have a stacked view as well.