Blooming Sensor Update

Concerning the black dot...

No CMOS camera I ever used -and I used a lot- experienced this black dot.
So I expect BMD to fix this in the near future.

To say it´s a CMOS problem, not a BMD problem would be the same as if BMD didn´t compensate for the green colorcast every Bayer pattern sensor has and say "That´s normal ´cause it´s more sensitive to green".

RED fixed it, too. Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Nikon don´t have this issue.

Only because the ALEXA has the same problem, which is a shame, it´s no excuse.

Concerning the black dot...

No CMOS camera I ever used -and I used a lot- experienced this black dot.
So I expect BMD to fix this in the near future.

To say it´s a CMOS problem, not a BMD problem would be the same as if BMD didn´t compensate for the green colorcast every Bayer pattern sensor has and say "That´s normal ´cause it´s more sensitive to green".

RED fixed it, too. Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Nikon don´t have this issue.

Only because the ALEXA has the same problem, which is a shame, it´s no excuse.

+1
Couldn't have said it better.

Thanks to the uber-responsive and supremely-helpful folks at BMD Asia, I've gotten my recalibrated BMPCC back.

I've uploaded a couple of quick clips to YouTube (

), and will refrain from commenting further lest my untrained eyes lead me to draw less-than-accurate conclusions. It is hoped that the footage will help you to decide for yourselves if the recalibration has been successful.

Btw, I've kept the audio to illustrate the internal noise that was first reported by CheesyCam (http://cheesycam.com/internal-noise-fro ... ma-camera/); sadly, the 'choir of crickets' issue afflicts my unit as well. Thankfully, the kind folks at BMD are already looking into it.

At 0:23 a car making a turn at top left of the frame. Looks like orbs are still there.

At 0:23 a car making a turn at top left of the frame. Looks like orbs are still there.

to me the whole first 15 seconds has orbs.

I wonder if Philip Bloom would send his camera back to be re-calibrated and then do a review for us.
I would be looking forward to that review.

Concerning the black dot...

No CMOS camera I ever used -and I used a lot- experienced this black dot.
So I expect BMD to fix this in the near future.

To say it´s a CMOS problem, not a BMD problem would be the same as if BMD didn´t compensate for the green colorcast every Bayer pattern sensor has and say "That´s normal ´cause it´s more sensitive to green".

RED fixed it, too. Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Nikon don´t have this issue.

Only because the ALEXA has the same problem, which is a shame, it´s no excuse.

+2

I've uploaded a couple of quick clips to YouTube (

), and will refrain from commenting further lest my untrained eyes lead me to draw less-than-accurate conclusions. It is hoped that the footage will help you to decide for yourselves if the recalibration has been successful..

dont think so, I maybe just clipped highlights out of focus.
I guess the inner parts of the the lamp in the last frame (green mark) would
have disappeared but right side (yellow mark) doesn't look so good..

Let's wait more footages of calibrated BMPCCs.

But in this clip (

) is still same issue.

[Joshua Helling]

They will then get you to fill in a form and then arrange an RMA for you. It will most likely get re-calibrated in Canada.

Unfortunately it will have to come back to our facility in Fremont.

[Joshua Helling]

Hi Joshua,
Just a quick clarification. Regarding the black sun issue for the BMCC...is this also a situation where we have to send our cameras in for recalibration or is this something you feel can or will be addressed in a future firmware update? Right now I am having the black sun appear whenever the sun enters my frame. There are times when I purposefully want the flare and don't want to have to track all of my shots in post to remove it?
Any info would be appreciated
Thanks

I've mentioned this earlier in the thread, and this definitely has to come back to us to re-calibrate. It's not something we can do in firmware.

Hi Joshua,
Just a quick clarification. Regarding the black sun issue for the BMCC...is this also a situation where we have to send our cameras in for recalibration or is this something you feel can or will be addressed in a future firmware update? Right now I am having the black sun appear whenever the sun enters my frame. There are times when I purposefully want the flare and don't want to have to track all of my shots in post to remove it?
Any info would be appreciated
Thanks

I've mentioned this earlier in the thread, and this definitely has to come back to us to re-calibrate. It's not something we can do in firmware.

Thank you Joshua
I will contact customer support.

Wait a minute?
You can fix the black spot issue by recalibratiion?
Only on the pocket or on the BMCC,too?

Wait a minute?
You can fix the black spot issue by recalibratiion?
Only on the pocket or on the BMCC,too?

+1

[Joshua Helling]

Hi Joshua,
Just a quick clarification. Regarding the black sun issue for the BMCC...is this also a situation where we have to send our cameras in for recalibration or is this something you feel can or will be addressed in a future firmware update? Right now I am having the black sun appear whenever the sun enters my frame. There are times when I purposefully want the flare and don't want to have to track all of my shots in post to remove it?
Any info would be appreciated
Thanks

I've mentioned this earlier in the thread, and this definitely has to come back to us to re-calibrate. It's not something we can do in firmware.

BLAH!!! This is my bad. This is not going to be changed by this re-calibration. Trying to catch up in this thread I misread this.

So, no, the black sun is a different thing entirely.

To prevent further confusion, please keep other concerns in their own thread. This one needs to be about the bloom only. As you can see, this quickly became confusing.

Thank you Joshua
I will contact customer support.

Joshua, could you comment on the white orb defect solutions though.

It would appear that in the post-calibration BMPCC, the artifact is still present as shown in the video on this page?

Unfortunately, it does look like there's some bloom in that video moebiushaydn posted.

It's reduced, which is better, but it definitely looks like it's still there....

Well, they never promised that they could completely eliminate it. So long as it's at an acceptable level I'm okay with a little.

Low light footage is the worst case scenario. The pre-calibration cameras would have seen all those headlights as Chinese lanterns even if the cars were a half-mile away.

Low light footage is the worst case scenario. The pre-calibration cameras would have seen all those headlights as Chinese lanterns even if the cars were a half-mile away.

Good point!

Anybody else have any footage to showcase? I'd really love to buy this camera, but if it still has this issue I will remain very leery...

I'm not convinced that new footage has blooming in the sense of how it was. You are going to have some natural blooming when you have a bright highlight like that, but it just should have a nice gradual falloff. The question is whether the highlights gradually fall off on this clip, and that is very difficult to tell, but to my eye it looks normal. It doesn't look nearly like what the problem was before.

Honestly if it looks like this, and bright highlights on a sunny day don't make bright white dots and orbs appear, I'm a happy camper.

They do look a bit more gradual, upon further inspection.

There's still some areas where it completely overtakes the subject "underneath", for example look at the image with the headlight overtaking the bush.

But, these are not ideal shooting situations, and everywhere else is definitely an improvement!

Agreed Matt - this is nothing like the highlight blooming I was getting with my camera. White discs with hard edges.
This is far more like highlight overexposure - not the most elegant handling of of highlights but at least a much better starting point.
People are so busy looking for the dreaded orbs that they are missing the sensor patten that has shown up in a couple of shots - I also got this once or twice with my camera (I've had it with other cameras as well)

Looking forward to getting my camera returned so I can start testing again.

New footage post-calibration has blooming. False lights above the vegetation of the examples are disappointing. Every light is a ball. I never saw an error so marked in other camera, only defective Fuji x10.

Re-calibration only increase gradient between light and shadows, but problem is here. Black Magic Pocket "Cinema" Camera not solve lights.

It appear that the problem is the sensor, this poorly designed. I think that BMD prefer sold out this first pocket and then make a new pocket without this issue. It's expensive solve this, Fuji was serious and replace sensors. But, BMD can survive this mistake?

So, Can BMD solve this issue in this pocket generation?

I don't know if it's best wait for new version of pocket without manufacturing defects.

Thanks.

Recalibrated BMPCC: yes, night shots are tough anyway.

So it'd be good to see a daylight shot of the street/highway with car chrome reflections.

Or a marina with sun reflecting in water.

Both day-time shots did look atrocious on pre-calibrated BMPCC. Any difference after?

Blooming in overexposed areas which are not in focus is completely normal. The matter is, when overexposed areas in focus are bubbling out. And that seems to be on a very much better level now.

I've uploaded a couple of quick clips to YouTube (

), and will refrain from commenting further lest my untrained eyes lead me to draw less-than-accurate conclusions. It is hoped that the footage will help you to decide for yourselves if the recalibration has been successful..

dont think so, I maybe just clipped highlights out of focus.
I guess the inner parts of the the lamp in the last frame (green mark) would
have disappeared but right side (yellow mark) doesn't look so good..

The right side are without a doubt specular highlights... Not blooming..

Guys,

stop watch large sources of highlights they are perfect in shape and properly graded.

The problem is with tip of highlights smaller than the head of a pin.

Watch woman's hand on the stairs in this movie. Source of orb is probably a jewel.

https://vimeo.com/73967873#t=159

The problem with the car lights can be the filament of lamps or again a fine highlight point on the silver reflector of car lights. Look at that in motion, how increases and decreases. Or how only one car light is blooming.

I think the presented examples are not bad at all. But I see the critical situations are like raadgie said the tip of small highlights and also car lights when pointed to the lens. The guys who have recalibrated cameras should try those situations...

chrome reflections.jpg (97.7 KiB) Viewed 22233 times

strong reflection point even far away.jpg (67.38 KiB) Viewed 22233 times

Years ago, it was put into my feeble brain that one should not expect ideal performance when using lenses purposed for 35mm film cameras on 16mm film cameras, more so the wider angle lenses that were otherwise compatible. The difference in the longer focal lengths was apparently less critical.

As an experienced practitioner, John Brawley might be able to clarify.

There was some high science mentioned about circles of confusion but I do not have the wit to understand let alone explain this.

Larger format lenses were regarded as being likely to be less sharp. Many lenses are sharper in the centre of their projected image. With the smaller image frame "seeing" only the centre of the image projected by the lens it was suggested that made the use of larger format lenses practicable.

One thing that has happened with smaller format digital video cameras has been an increase it seems in routinely using larger format lenses on small format sensors. There is also a multiplicity of sensor sizes with optics match-designed for them.

There are now various adaptors which enable fitting to all sorts of cameras of just about any lens type known to man since the ancient Minoan lenses - oh well not quite.

One might speculate that when using the purposed Super16mm lenses on the Blackmagic compact camera, that the flare or orb issue may be diminished. The sensor as far as I can tell is the same as for the original 2.6K camera except that the sensor is cropped to Super16mm size and is offset relative to optical axis.

It has been mentioned that the orb issue presents when using some lens types. It may be that Blackmagic's compact camera may have become vulnerable to too much freedom of lens choice being available today. If the sensor and downstream processing on the 2.6K camera and the compact camera are otherwise identical, then it might come down to lens choices needing to be made.

It would be a happy solution if BM can make the issue go away. Otherwise, compatible lens systems may have to be tested for and defined in that same way that system requirements are defined for various softwares.

When one thinks of how much the SI2K/P+S Technik camera-recorder cost not so long ago, the BM compact camera is a bargain even with the "orb" issue.

When one thinks of how much the SI2K/P+S Technik camera-recorder cost not so long ago, the BM compact camera is a bargain even with the "orb" issue.

No it is not a bargain at any price, if the footage is unusable. White orb problem makes many shots unusable, unfortunately.

I've just finished a rather expansive piece that puts the BMPC through a range of challenges, more than I've seen anywhere in the wild so far (while keeping things simple, using a single lens, hand-held). Curious now to receive assessments on how this particular sensor (August 27th delivery) performs in the areas of white orbs and blooming. This frame grab, which happens to be the poster frame too, doesn't necessarily evidence the problem because the chandelier is out of focus, and the specular highlights on the clock aren't quite clipping:

Poster frame in Grand Central Terminal

New York City.jpg (861.07 KiB) Viewed 22033 times

But it goes without saying that Times Square becomes a premium challenge (once we get there). Here is the link to this 7-minute piece on Vimeo: http://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagic/videos/74050045

Nice job Paul, shows the camera's potential. The Pany 12-35 looked good too.

too much motion blur...I assume shot this at 23.97 with a 180 degree shutter?

too much motion blur...I assume shot this at 23.97 with a 180 degree shutter?

no & no

Curious now to receive assessments on how this particular sensor (August 27th delivery) performs in the areas of white orbs and blooming.
.
.
But it goes without saying that Times Square becomes a premium challenge (once we get there). Here is the link to this 7-minute piece on Vimeo: http://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagic/videos/74050045

Great Job, Paul, nice grading too!
The camera seems to behave much better than mine (Aug 21st delivery) but there are still some scenes where the issue is clearly visible, e.g. 3:33 back lights blow over statue's head, 6:65 reflections on water.

What was the frame rate and shutter speed?

while keeping things simple, using a single lens, hand-held

Very nice considering your above statement. Nice to see how the Pocket handles when exposed correctly. Thanks for the tour of New York.

Steve.

So i'm not sure to send it in or not. Seems not total fix and am afraid that because I live in The Netherlands I will be without a Camera for long when send it in. It took long for delivery already. In my first footage from Rotterdam Harbor there is seen lots of blooming errors but maybe have to live with that. I can't be without the camera for long... Would you all sent it in for re-calibration even though you would live in Europe?

I've just finished a rather expansive piece that puts the BMPC through a range of challenges, more than I've seen anywhere in the wild so far (while keeping things simple, using a single lens, hand-held). Curious now to receive assessments on how this particular sensor (August 27th delivery) performs in the areas of white orbs and blooming. This frame grab, which happens to be the poster frame too, doesn't necessarily evidence the problem because the chandelier is out of focus, and the specular highlights on the clock aren't quite clipping:

New York City.jpg

But it goes without saying that Times Square becomes a premium challenge (once we get there). Here is the link to this 7-minute piece on Vimeo

Good footage!

You can see White Orbs and Blooming very clear on 6:56. Sunlight on water is awful.
Actually BMD Pocket is defective.

Can BMD really solve this issue? The re-calibration try to mask the problem, but not fix it.

So i'm not sure to send it in or not. Seems not total fix and am afraid that because I live in The Netherlands I will be without a Camera for long when send it in. It took long for delivery already. In my first footage from Rotterdam Harbor there is seen lots of blooming errors but maybe have to live with that. I can't be without the camera for long... Would you all sent it in for re-calibration even though you would live in Europe?

Warranty laws in Europe are more user-friendly. In some countries you can return your Pocket to BMD if they don't solve the issue without sellers deadline. In Spain you have 6 months to return to the manufacturer (not seller) if they can´t solve a design-manufacture issue as it is.

does the Booming issue only happen at the "out-focus" area?

Curious now to receive assessments

Due to good exposure practices and the engaging (highly animated) nature of your piece the "white orbs and blooming" appear less pronounced. Arriving at the nighttime scenes the dreaded phenomenon however exhibits quite explicitly [see 2:58-3:00 particularly (quite obvious also because we have become hyper vigilant to it's appearance)].

I suspect the atmospheric light conditions - as opposed to say clear and bright African sun - in the latter scenes lends itself to diminished (meant in a subdued sense) specular highlights.

So i'm not sure to send it in or not. Seems not total fix and am afraid that because I live in The Netherlands I will be without a Camera for long when send it in. It took long for delivery already. In my first footage from Rotterdam Harbor there is seen lots of blooming errors but maybe have to live with that. I can't be without the camera for long... Would you all sent it in for re-calibration even though you would live in Europe?

the question is: what kind of footage will you shoot and can you live with these issues? For me no doubt, my camera went back yesterday. I can't be long without.. cmon! that's only valid for my wife and the kids!

I don't know which right are given by consumer protection in NL - here in Germany there is no duty for the dealer to take back any goods. It's mostly handled so but only as good-will not as a legal obligation. The manufacturer is given the possibility to repair at least for 2 times and if the issues still exists after that you can insist in revoking the deal.

There is also a difference if the buyer is end-consumer or acting as professional. Online purchase by end-consumers can be canceled within two weeks without any reason. But that's not valid for professionals.

You will be in trouble if the manufacturer states an issue as non-issue or normal behavior. (See BM's "it's normal for every CMOS or CCD sensor)

does the Booming issue only happen at the "out-focus" area?

No. It happens also in focus but it mostly looks like out of focus blurred lights then.

Good footage!

You can see White Orbs and Blooming very clear on 6:56. Sunlight on water is awful.
Actually BMD Pocket is defective.

Can BMD really solve this issue? The re-calibration try to mask the problem, but not fix it.

You guys are aware, that Paul shot this with a camera, that was NOT recalibrated yet.

Good footage!

You can see White Orbs and Blooming very clear on 6:56. Sunlight on water is awful.
Actually BMD Pocket is defective.

Can BMD really solve this issue? The re-calibration try to mask the problem, but not fix it.

You guys are aware, that Paul shot this with a camera, that was NOT recalibrated yet.

Sorry, it is difficult to differentiate. I saw the same issue that "Recalibrated BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera -- Sample footage" for Ivan Yap on Youtube

. White Orbs and Blooming are here.

BMD refuses to give the serial numbers of the affected units, so "focuspulling" question in the forum. It's a BMD disaster management. How can you tell if some camera shoot correctly? For now all existing footages, "pre" and "post" calibrated show this issue, only varies the type of masking.

I want to see water, cars or other sunlight reflections with "re-calibrated" camera. Or another "BMPCC vs BMCC "Bloom" Test" for Adam Roberts in Youtube

, it's very clear.

I want to see water, cars or other sunlight reflections with "re-calibrated" camera.

+1

It appears that some people here are unable to differentiate white orbs from strong specular reflections/blooming.

Note that the white orbs issue was some sort of white clamped bloom that was eating out part of the non-bloomed image (the good part of the image)

Having seen the two fixed cameras footage this does not seem to happen anymore, as for the remaining blooming, I'd say it's no different than the alexa one, you can compare with the Alexa demo reel presented at NAB, there are some shots similar to these car headlights shots.

(edit)
source of my statement: I worked on one of the features showcased in the alexa showreel (one of the ones with car headlights) and have seen the dpx's.

So i'm not sure to send it in or not. Seems not total fix and am afraid that because I live in The Netherlands I will be without a Camera for long when send it in. It took long for delivery already. In my first footage from Rotterdam Harbor there is seen lots of blooming errors but maybe have to live with that. I can't be without the camera for long... Would you all sent it in for re-calibration even though you would live in Europe?

the question is: what kind of footage will you shoot and can you live with these issues? For me no doubt, my camera went back yesterday. I can't be long without.. cmon! that's only valid for my wife and the kids!

I don't know which right are given by consumer protection in NL - here in Germany there is no duty for the dealer to take back any goods. It's mostly handled so but only as good-will not as a legal obligation. The manufacturer is given the possibility to repair at least for 2 times and if the issues still exists after that you can insist in revoking the deal.

There is also a difference if the buyer is end-consumer or acting as professional. Online purchase by end-consumers can be canceled within two weeks without any reason. But that's not valid for professionals.

You will be in trouble if the manufacturer states an issue as non-issue or normal behavior. (See BM's "it's normal for every CMOS or CCD sensor)

Well, I will also just wait for some recalibrated camera tests. Just don't want to have it gone for 2 months or so... We're shooting some project with it and our BMCC is in rental now so if gone for Blooming now for one or two months I have to use an 5D again... Not that big problem, it has ML but although want to use BMCC or BMPCC so thats why I stated to not lose it for long and can't do without.

My dealer wil ask BMD this weekend at IBC Amsterdam how about the recall. Also I will maybe ask themselves if I go to IBC.

Or another "BMPCC vs BMCC "Bloom" Test" for Adam Roberts in Youtube

, it's very clear.

Once my camera has been re-calibrated I'll shoot another test. It won't be until after IBC as the BMC EU staff are all focused on IBC at the moment.